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The problem

One of the recurring questions on Meta is "why was this question closed?" In nearly every case, the question is posed by a newcomer to Stack Exchange who doesn't understand what closing means. The new users get frustrated with the (apparently) inscrutable, hostile SE system while Meta regulars get frustrated with new users who (apparently) don't care about how the site works.

Experienced users know that closure isn't inherently a negative thing, but to new users, "closed" often looks like "this question is worthless and irredeemable, just like its author; i.e. you suck." Yes, everyone should just read the FAQ, but let's be honest, it's not going to happen. Even if they did, though, it'd be better to build a system that doesn't cause confusion in the first place.

Things new users don't know about closure:

  • On SE sites, "closed" is not a synonym for "deleted"
  • Closure just means "this question is not adding value right now," not necessarily "this question is irredeemable"
  • You can go back and edit your closed question to improve it
  • You should go back and edit your closed question to improve it
  • All closure does is prevent new answers from being added; commenting, editing and voting can all still happen

A solution

Therefore, I propose changing the term "closed" out for... something else. The new term should give a sense of transience rather than permanence, and encouragement rather than punishment. It's too bad "flagged" has a meaning on SE already; if it didn't, it would fit really well. "Suspended" or "needs improvement" might be suitable terms. "Abeyance" is close, but is probably too fancy a word to actually get used.

Better suggestions are welcome. The important thing is that we indicate that the question, while imperfect in its current form, can and should be improved.

Not up for such a drastic change? We could also add a "what does this mean?" or "how can I undo this?" link to all closed questions that point to the close FAQ or a similar page. Maybe the help link would appear only for the OP. Example:

mockup of closed question help text

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16
  • 14
    You need something better than MS Paint, one of these days. ♪
    – Grace Note StaffMod
    Nov 12, 2010 at 14:27
  • 1
    @Grace they make something better? EDIT: Thanks to Yi Jiang for better mockup!
    – Pops
    Nov 12, 2010 at 14:29
  • 4
    "...and cannot be reasonably answered in its current form. "
    – badp
    Nov 12, 2010 at 14:36
  • 4
    I'm very not a fan of adding a giant "what does this mean?" link in the middle of the close box
    – Michael Mrozek
    Nov 12, 2010 at 14:37
  • 1
    @Michael, tweaked that suggestion a little to make it more palatable for those users who are for some reason looking at close reasons all day.
    – Pops
    Nov 12, 2010 at 14:51
  • 2
    FYI, we had a long argument about this on the Cooking meta with almost identical points and suggestions. I'm not going to rehash it all and obviously the SA community is not the MSO community, but I think the prevailing sentiment was that we shouldn't change the wording itself because people who are sensitive enough to storm out the door in such an instance aren't going to help you build a stable community. I did advocate and still agree with providing a hyperlink to an explanation of "closed" - but I strongly disagree with wording changes.
    – Aarobot
    Nov 12, 2010 at 15:51
  • 7
    To anyone that's ever used an internet forum or gone to school, "suspended" is terrible, fear-invoking word. Do not use that as a synonym for "closed."
    – Corey
    Nov 13, 2010 at 0:07
  • 2
    @Corey - Suspended isn't that scary - english.stackexchange.com/questions/45209/…
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 14:50
  • 8
    Perhaps "closed for revision" like a store that's "closed for remodeling". Then you still have the clarity of "closed" but without the implication of permanency.
    – Igby Largeman
    Oct 18, 2011 at 16:43
  • @Charles - excellent idea, yes that would be good.
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 20, 2011 at 4:59
  • 2
    declining the specific request, because we aren't renaming closed. However the badge request seems like a reasonable idea, of course.
    – Jeff Atwood
    Jan 3, 2012 at 9:22
  • @JeffAtwood Hopefully you still come here from time to time. There's an abnormal amount of fuzz about your status-declined reason on this feature-request. You declined a discussion, not a feature-request. Did you decline the topic in it's entirety, or just renaming "closed"?
    – Steven Jeuris
    Mar 11, 2012 at 6:24
  • 2
    @StevenJeuris I strongly oppose renaming closed, specifically. I'd veto that. Also, be careful about adding a lot of words to a page for the types of users who, to put it charitably, read virtually nothing on a page.
    – Jeff Atwood
    Mar 11, 2012 at 8:46
  • @JeffAtwood Thank you. I'm not particularly fond of renaming "closed" either. However, consider reading this discussion to get an understanding of why closing a discussion as status-declined might not have been the best course of action. (Also indicated by the feature request I linked to earlier.)
    – Steven Jeuris
    Mar 11, 2012 at 11:14
  • Regarding reading the FAQs, Ive always been of the opinion that if you write a piece of software that requires the end user to read the manual then you have failed. I see no reason why SO should be any different
    – Richard Tingle
    Jun 19, 2013 at 9:27

11 Answers 11

Reset to default
69
+100

Idea: add a badge for editing your closed question and getting it reopened. Then make the close message say:

closed as not a real question by David Fullerton ♦ 3 hours ago.

It's difficult to tell what is being asked here. This question is ambiguous, vague, incomplete, overly broad or rhetorical and cannot be reasonably answered in its current form.

You can earn the [resurrection]* badge by fixing your question and getting 5 people to vote to reopen it.

Now, instead of having the door slammed in your face, it's an opportunity to earn shiny badges while learning how to ask good questions.

* there's probably a better name for this badge than "resurrection".

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  • 9
    I like it, but at least based on my experience on Programmers, I'd suggest a few changes: 1) make it available to anyone who edits the question: many people who complain about closures aren't the OP, 2) make it repeatable or have tiers: one time isn't enough to condition people, and 3) Allow moderator reopens to satisfy the criteria of the badge: nearly every reopen on P.SE is a moderator reopen.
    – user149432
    Oct 15, 2011 at 1:27
  • 5
    Nearly every closure on P.SE is a moderator closure (ducks)
    – Lorem Ipsum
    Oct 15, 2011 at 1:45
  • 1
    +1 - so perhaps instead of [resurrection], something like [Revivalist] or [Reincarnation] ?
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 2:02
  • 1
    I disagree that there's a better name for the badge than [resurrection]. But if it does exist, it's probably parrot.
    – Shog9
    Oct 15, 2011 at 2:06
  • @Shog9 - You're right, I was thinking it meant 'rebellion'. But resurrection fits best.
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 2:09
  • 1
    @Adel I believe that's insurrection
    – Grace Note StaffMod
    Oct 15, 2011 at 2:11
  • @GraceNote - Thanks very much, yes insurrection. I'm relieved now, & I need a coffee :)
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 2:14
  • 1
    Wow, this is a great idea.
    – Lance Roberts
    Oct 15, 2011 at 3:43
  • 3
    People who aren't yet a part of the community are not interested in badges and will probably not read passed the word "closed". They just want their question answered. It's not a bad idea, but it misses what I think the point of the suggestion was.
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 15, 2011 at 19:07
  • 2
    @Jon I disagree. I think it accomplishes the two most important parts of the suggestion: (1) make it obvious that closure is not permanent, and (2) offer encouragement / help on how to fix it. And it does it in a way that doesn't require renaming "closed" everywhere on the site, which honestly is extremely unlikely to happen.
    – David Fullerton
    Oct 15, 2011 at 19:30
  • 9
    I can't get past the fact that "the question is closed" carries a large degree of finality in normal English usage. I just don't see naive users understanding that there is a path to reopen a "closed" question and that the responsibility is firmly on them to do so. (And none of this would matter except I keep hearing that it's ok to close quickly because the question can always be reopened later. Right.)
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 15, 2011 at 19:46
  • @JonEricson - That's true that "closed" has a permanent connotation. However, if David's suggestion was added it would at least give hope to the users who are smart enough to read through the whole message. And it would soften the blow a bit. As to naive newbies who don't read... that's really their problem. Because it's doubtful that we will see "closed" being transformed into any other word, as it's an ingrained and simple one. Sure some people will feel hurt, but it isn't such a hurtful word("deleted" and "killed"/"trashed" would be meaner right?).
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 21:55
  • 1
    @Adel: I don't use SO much any more, so my perspective is more from sites that are still in the community building phase. We don't have a culture except what we inherit from SO and, maybe, the specific field that's on topic. Our experts are likely to experience culture shock and they aren't going to come back ever if they decide the site is not for them. SO can keep "close" as far as I'm concerned, but I'd really like to change the term for Biblical Hermeneutics and Philosophy.
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 16, 2011 at 10:16
  • 2
    I turned part of this answer into an actual badge request here.
    – Pops
    Oct 17, 2011 at 16:45
  • 2
    @David What about the badge name [Good Samaritan]?
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 22, 2011 at 17:51
23

closed as not a real question by common sense ♦ 3 hours ago.

It's difficult to tell what is being asked here. This question is ambiguous, vague, incomplete, overly broad or rhetorical and cannot be reasonably answered in its current form.

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7
  • Nice formatting.
    – Pops
    Nov 12, 2010 at 14:49
  • 3
    Linking to the privileges wiki instead of meta would be better, since that exists on every site. Other than that, I agree; I don't want to change the wording itself, these people do need a slight kick in the ass, and a hyperlink similar to the above is what we should offer if we're going to offer anything.
    – Aarobot
    Nov 12, 2010 at 15:45
  • @aarobot While it may be a good idea, there are no privilege wiki equivalents for the other question statuses (locked and protected).
    – badp
    Nov 12, 2010 at 15:47
  • No, there aren't - but those concepts seem to be outside the scope of this discussion. Protected questions already have an inline explanation and IMO don't require anything more, and locked questions are incredibly rare except on Stack Overflow.
    – Aarobot
    Nov 12, 2010 at 15:55
  • 1
    @Aaro, fair enough, it just felt like an inconsistency.
    – badp
    Nov 12, 2010 at 16:03
  • 1
    @Badp I don't know/remember why this question got bumped into my view, but for seeing the formatting you've applied, I wonder if it's sufficient enough for new users to grasp right away?
    – jcolebrand
    Mar 16, 2011 at 17:45
  • @jcolebrand I added a tooltip to the closed link.
    – user102937
    Oct 18, 2011 at 4:35
21

What this whole thing seems to be pointing to is the difference between "closed" and "needs revision". This is the difference between "this isn't wanted here" and "you need to fix this before we can answer". So, why not have that?

There are 5 reasons for a question to be closed (outside of actual maliciousness): Duplicate, off-topic, not constructive, not actually a question, and too localized.

If you mark something as a duplicate or off-topic, then it should be simply labeled "closed" (or migrated, of course). Otherwise, it should be labeled "needs revision".

Neither of these has any functional effect; "closed" and "needs revision" should behave exactly the same. But the user sees "[Needs Revision]" instead of "[Closed]" on their question. And the text blurb afterwards should explain what the revisions should entail.

For example:

Not Constructive: Your question invites opinion, debate, argument, polling, or extended discussion. Please rephrase your question to facts, references, and/or specific expertise.

Not A Question: Your question is too ambiguous, vague, incomplete, overly broad, or rhetorical. Please rephrase the question to clarify what you are asking for.

Too Localized: Your question is unlikely to ever help anyone in the future; it is only relevant to a small geographic area, a specific moment in time, or an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the world-wide audience of the Internet. Please broaden the subject matter of your question.

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  • 2
    [Needs Work] is shorter...
    – Shog9
    Oct 15, 2011 at 15:11
  • 2
    This is a great idea really. Good insight
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 21:58
  • ‘Neither of these has any functional effect; "closed" and "needs revision" should behave exactly the same.’ – What wording would you suggest in place of re-open for questions that "need revision"? I mean, would it make sense to leave the re-open text without change? Wouldn't that suggest the author of the question that their question was in fact closed, even though it read [needs revision] in the title?
    – Andriy M
    Jul 23, 2012 at 5:47
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I'm not a fan of revising or softening the definition of "close": it really does mean "closed for eternity," but with the qualifier "unless someone takes the time to improve it so that it's useful here."

I suggested it in another question, but I do like the idea of adding a link to help people who are willing to take the initiative to figure out what happened. Right now, the closed notice spends a lot of time explaining what the person did wrong, but nothing directly about how to fix it.

The last line in the current closed notice is:

See the FAQ.

I propose we replace this line with a link explaining how the user can get their question reopened:

See how you can get this question reopened.

Which would link to a new page that explained a few things:

  • Why questions are closed instead of left open (see English.SE and Programmers.SE for examples)
  • General tips on how to improve a question so it can be reopened (perhaps a link to or copy-paste of How to Ask)
  • What recourses users have to appeal a closure (link to meta, flagging FAQ)
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6
  • Excellent idea, as it gives them hope and teaches them SO rules at same time.
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 0:44
  • 1
    Not a bad idea to change the wording of the message. But what harm does it do to soften the word we use to describe the action to newcomers assuming the function of the action remains the same?
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 15, 2011 at 19:14
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    @JonEricson It conditions people to expect every question will get reopened eventually: "It's been 2 weeks why hasn't this question been reopened? Closure is supposed to be temporary!" That's not the case: only questions that actually get improved enough to be on-topic get reopened. It's masking the problem to prevent hurt feelings instead of getting people to perform the correct action, which makes the close message less usable.
    – user149432
    Oct 15, 2011 at 22:32
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    That would depend on what alternative terminology is chosen, of course. "Needs work", "under construction" and "draft" all indicate to me that the question might not be reopened without effort and yet are each softer than "closed" to my ear.
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 16, 2011 at 10:03
  • Perhaps it would've been better to make this feature-request? +1
    – Steven Jeuris
    Mar 11, 2012 at 4:48
  • Of course this excellent suggestion was implemented, per my answer here.
    – Jeff Atwood
    Oct 16, 2012 at 7:02
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+100

The problem was not the word "close". It's a simple description of state: is the door open, or is it closed? You'd have to more emo than My Chemical Romance to read much into that.

The real problem, as I see it, was that the explanatory text for "close" was probably not good enough. And that explanatory text was updated significantly since this was posted, quite a while ago -- based on the feedback implied by this question.*

Before (as in screenshot):

Closed as off topic by {user1} .. {user5} {time}

Questions on Stack Overflow are expected to generally relate to programming or software development in some way, within the scope defined in the faq.

After:

Closed as off topic by {user1} .. {user5} {time}

Questions on Stack Overflow are expected to relate to programming or software development within the scope defined in the FAQ. Consider editing the question or leaving comments for improvement if you believe the question can be reworded to fit within the scope. Read more about closed questions here.

That solved 90% of the request in my view. The other 10% (close is a loaded word!) I just don't agree with at all.

* a good example of "cure the disease, don't merely treat the symptoms"

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  • 2
    Bah. I propose "Your question has gone to sleep. It will wake up in question heaven where it can play with its friends all day long."
    – Pekka
    Jul 22, 2012 at 6:40
  • Hmm. I recalled the FAQ being less helpful than it currently is - or maybe I'm confusing SO with other SE sites. IIRC (this is still standard for other sites, e.g. MSO), the links used to go: Closure announcement --> Why are some questions closed? --> Which questions aren't a good fit? --> This is an on-topic list, but my question is totally on topic (it's just poorly written or plain bad and I don't realize it)! --> ::FRUSTRATED:: . On Writers.SE We also edited the standard FAQ there for similar reasons.
    – Ziv
    Jul 22, 2012 at 10:16
  • (cont.) Current phrasing on SO indeed includes some clearer guidelines of what's a good question, beyond being on-topic. Anyway, long story short: I agree. Yay!
    – Ziv
    Jul 22, 2012 at 10:16
7

"Draft"

Because that's what it is.

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  • 5
    I can't decide if it's a feature or a bug that this word may be misread as "Daft".
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 15, 2011 at 19:55
4

I suggest "Closed" questions be renamed "Under Construction":

Under Construction

It ought to clearly convey to the asker that their question needs some work while simultaneously notifying answerers that they will need to hold off on tackling a response. And like all those Geocities pages, many of these questions will be forever Under Construction until the host deletes them altogether.

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  • 2
    And if the wording is changed, a randomly selected example of the innumerable and whimsical men-at-work icons could replace the vote totals and arrows. Seriously, there are tons: google.com/…
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 15, 2011 at 0:19
4

If a word change is to be, there are many words (maybe... "on hold" or "suspended" ?).

Honestly, "closed" is probably an appropriate word (it's monosyllabic, intuitive, and accurate), and like a door being closed, it's not necessarily locked-shut. Sure - a few will be hurt a bit by the word "closed", but they will grow a thicker skin - this is the Internet. And as Mark mentioned, the question is closed - pretty much 90+% of the time. A lot of questions really are hopeless.

So I'm voting on David's neat idea. Please give more than "Read the FAQ" as a message. "See the FAQ" is somewhat patronizing/curt. What else can I do today? What about giving hope for fixing it?

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  • 2
    Frozen doesn't carry enough of the connotation of needing work to revive. It might sound... arbitrary.
    – Jon Ericson
    Oct 15, 2011 at 0:29
  • @Jon , I think it may actually. When a road freezes over, you throw salt on it. The part about reviving can be included in the message too.
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 0:32
  • 1
    @Adel: that sounds biased to Northerners ;) perhaps [Needs Work]?
    – user7116
    Oct 15, 2011 at 0:34
  • Yeah, 'Needs Work' would do. That would be like the "Under Construction" one. Which is fine really. But Hmm, maybe a picture of a frozen bridge for the clueless?
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 0:39
  • 1
    'On hold' sounds fine to me
    – GUI Junkie
    Oct 15, 2011 at 22:52
  • @GUIJunkie - Thanks, however they'll argue against it because it sounds like a phone term, or sends the wrong message.
    – Caffeinated
    Oct 15, 2011 at 22:56
  • 1
    Who are 'they'? Are 'they' after me as well?
    – GUI Junkie
    Oct 15, 2011 at 23:00
3

Far as I can see, most of the questions that get closed in short order are worthless, excreted onto the site by 1-rep wonders who can't be bothered to spell, think for five minutes, or respond to any comments. If you can show a statistically significant number of repairable questions that got (a) closed and (b) resulted in someone stomping off in a Huffman code, I'll retract this statement.

My belief is that redeemable questions are first challenged in comments, and when the questioner is clueful, repaired, before 5 close votes ever accumulate.

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  • 2
    This is definitely true on our SE, anyway. Most members will quickly edit their questions if we explain that it's off-topic (or otherwise problematic) and provide a suggestion on how to change it. The questions that are truly irredeemable (and there have been several) are usually asked by people with no other participation, or with participation that's limited to other equally awful questions. Coincidentally, those people all seem to come from the Stack Overflow pool...
    – Aarobot
    Nov 12, 2010 at 23:49
3

Limited

This has several complimentary connotations:

1) Functionally there are limited choices when addressing the question: flag, vote, reopen, and comment.

2) For the system, the impact the question can have is limited in the future.

3) It implies that the question is not complete and needs work for the restrictions to be lifted. (Other phrases "Draft", "Needs Work", etc. cover this better.)

4) It doesn't imply that anything else needs to be done to the question ever (unlike phrases that push the needing work angle).

Unlike "the question is closed", "the question is limited" isn't an idiomatic phrase that could mislead people. "Limited" carries no particular value judgment. A question can be good and limited or bad and limited. (Value judgments belong in the comments, where they are made by people, not in the mechanism of the system, which can seem mechanical and arbitrary.) What I like about the word is that its honest and straightforward and doesn't have the negative baggage of "Closed".

(This idea was inspired by, but completely orthogonal to another suggestion I made over yonder.)

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1
  • +1 best answer. Sorry @David Fullerton I think giving out a badge, although nice, is not helpful when I see the big bolded closed word on the question.
    – JonH
    Oct 17, 2012 at 13:59
3

I'm inclined to agree with Jeff. Closed is a word that simply describes a state. A question is either open to answers or ! open to answers. Or perhaps closed or ! closed. Since we have both words, we might as well make use of them.

The only problem I have with closures is the Not Constructive reason. It's vague, and often technically incorrect. Questions can contain a lot of useful (or 'constructive') information despite not being a good fit for a Q&A format.

Why not simply change Not Constructive to:

Not A Good Fit

This question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. Questions on Stack Overflow should encourage objective, technically verifiable answers, not invite protracted discussion, debate or simple recommendations.

The wording could be changed to suit the specifics of sites where a bit of discussion is expected, but the underlying reason (Not A Good Fit) basically remains the same.

It seems to me that Not Constructive was intended as an euphemism, but I think reality is better served by simply spelling it out. Just like closed or ! closed, a question is either a good fit or it's not. If we're going to tell people that there's something fundamentally wrong with their question, we should be a bit more specific.

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13
  • Euphemisms march on. "not constructive" replaced "subjective and argumentative", which got people arguing about "and" vs. "or". And who remembers, on Meta, "noise or pointless"?
    – Michael Petrotta
    Oct 16, 2012 at 1:54
  • @MichaelPetrotta I miss noise or pointless, and pointless noise. Meep Meep.
    – user50049
    Oct 16, 2012 at 1:57
  • I've no great love of NC, but NaGF seems just as euphemistic.
    – Shog9
    Oct 16, 2012 at 2:20
  • @Shog9 What about NOA? Not objectively answerable (while keeping the 'is not a good fit' text in the reasoning)? I can't think of a less euphemistic term than that.
    – user50049
    Oct 16, 2012 at 3:28
  • 2
    Actually @Shog9 I think nagf is quite a bit better than not constructive. At least it's softer, like saying "it's not you, baby, it's me" in a breakup.
    – Jeff Atwood
    Oct 16, 2012 at 6:56
  • If we're going to call it "not a good fit", why not call a spade a spade and just get rid of it in favor of "off-topic"?
    – user149432
    Oct 16, 2012 at 7:35
  • This question is a bit old now, but I don't think it was ever about the wording of the individual close reasons. It's about the term "closed" itself. The problem with it is that it's overloaded, in the programming sense of the term. It's used extensively in other places in ways that don't match our way, which can be confusing to new users, to say the least.
    – Pops
    Oct 16, 2012 at 14:23
  • @Jeff: yeah, exactly - which is a euphemism for "but no, really, it is you".
    – Shog9
    Oct 16, 2012 at 16:28
  • @popular all these bogus "don't use this word, use this other word" arguments boil down to the same thing. However, I do believe that NAGF is a softer and therefore maybe more socially acceptable way of saying Not Constructive. Whereas with "closed", I have yet to see any other proposed word that is remotely close to working.
    – Jeff Atwood
    Oct 16, 2012 at 17:28
  • 1
    @JeffAtwood we can continue to disagree about that, but the immediate point is that Tim's (perfectly nice) post here largely doesn't answer the question I asked.
    – Pops
    Oct 16, 2012 at 17:31
  • 1
    @popular I find that when people ask the wrong question, they get tend to get wrong answers.
    – Jeff Atwood
    Oct 16, 2012 at 22:49
  • @PopularDemand This question is linked in comments on the latest podcast, where this was discussed a bit. I could open a new question saying "Let's change NC to NAGF" but it's essentially a duplicate of this. I did address your question, at least as far as I can tell in the first paragraph of my answer. If I didn't .. what did I miss? I'm the first to admit that I'm often dense :)
    – user50049
    Oct 18, 2012 at 3:56
  • @TimPost ah, I didn't know about that podcast blog entry's comments section. On second look, I guess this is a valid "don't do that" answer followed up by a related topic. When I read it before, I thought that the related topic was your attempt at an answer, and it just felt a little mismatched, but it really doesn't seem like a big deal now. If anything, I'm the dense one here. I appreciate the reply, in any case.
    – Pops
    Oct 18, 2012 at 8:29

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