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I stumbled across this question about ruby frameworks, and found a great, informative answer.

Is it possible to make a web app in ruby without using a framework? And if yes, why are frameworks chosen by most ruby web developers?

Although the question itself is broad and possibly borderline for Stack Overflow, it seems (at least to me) that the accepted answer is good enough to redeem a poor question and "make the Internet a better place".

At this point, is the question really Not Constructive?

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Nothing can improve that question save for deletion. The answer might be a good one in the right setting but in this one becomes irrelevant. –  Grant Thomas Apr 11 '13 at 15:00
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@Mr.Disappointment I disagree that the setting makes the answer irrelevant. I just read though it and it is a very good answer. I have been working with ruby on rails for 2 years now and I learned something about ruby from that answer. Yes the question is broad. But consider the context. The guy who asked it probably isn't looking for a book he is looking for a place to start. And that answer does a very good job of addressing the question within that context. –  ryan Apr 11 '13 at 15:08
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Unfortunately, now that you brought it up the deleters have jumped on it and killed. We lose good content every day because of some people who think that even a great answer that doesn't fit their little paradigm should be killed, instead of letting it help the people who appreciate it. It's been discussed in the past, and old questions with good answers are supposed to be left alone, but a lot of people don't care about those rules. –  Lance Roberts Apr 11 '13 at 15:11
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@LanceRoberts That's no old question, it's a couple days. The 'good' answer was some sort of blog post spiel, and this is the paradigm we've been conditioned to enact. –  Grant Thomas Apr 11 '13 at 15:20
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I'm starting to think we're going over the top with these closings. The question clearly has a specific background in Ruby (as far as I understand the Ruby scene). It's not a random "can xyz be done in abc" type question. –  Pëkka Apr 11 '13 at 15:21
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Voted to undelete. –  Pëkka Apr 11 '13 at 15:22
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question is deleted now, making it impossible to discuss for anyone with less than 10K at SO. It would be better to undelete it (and lock as "content dispute") at least while meta discussion on it is active –  gnat Apr 11 '13 at 15:23
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I am of the opinion that questions with good answers should never be deleted, regardless of the quality of the question. If a question doesn't fit for SO, close it, yes, but don't delete the question if it's accumulated a good answer. –  Emrakul Apr 11 '13 at 15:31
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@Pekka웃 It is now undeleted. –  bluefeet Apr 11 '13 at 15:47
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Nobody really wants to save it because nobody has edited it in a way that's not asking for a long blog post to qualify it. –  random Apr 11 '13 at 16:14
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@gnat Keep in mind that locking would prevent any edits to better ground the question, and perhaps edits to improve either answer even more. I looked at how the question could be better anchored in the first answer, and perhaps adding some references, but I don't know enough about Ruby to be effective. I'm hoping that if something is going to stave off deletion, it'll be an improvement to the question itself. That's what needs to happen ultimately if it's going to stay around. Still, I'm leaving it up to the mods. –  Tim Post Apr 11 '13 at 16:28
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I see that the big problem here is the second part of the question: "And if yes, why are frameworks chosen by most ruby web developers?". Maybe we could delete it entirely from both question and answers? –  Jefffrey Apr 11 '13 at 16:33
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The only question there actually is "How do I build a web app using Ruby without a framework?" –  random Apr 11 '13 at 16:39
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@Servy - No, the answer says "Yes" and then proceeds to explain in great detail how you would start. And why you might not want to do this (IE, developing apps for production). –  Justin Ethier Apr 11 '13 at 16:40
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NARQ by criteria of "incomplete". 1) "Is it possible to make a web app in ruby without using a framework?" -> OP needs to clarify what have they tried before asking this. 2) "why are frameworks chosen by most ruby web developers?" -> OP needs to explain why they think so, where did they got that idea –  gnat Apr 11 '13 at 16:45

4 Answers 4

up vote 5 down vote accepted

When evaluating a post for deletion, consider the following question: "On the whole, is the Internet better or worse because this post is here?"

Closing is not the same thing at all. By leaving the post on the site in its closed state, people on the Internet can still benefit from the information contained in the well-written answer, without the question itself being fodder for arguments and opinions.

My vote: Closed: Yes. Deleted: No.

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It's worth noting that a lot of people are not only voting to undelete (which I support) but voting to reopen (there are currently 3 reopen votes, so a total of 8 people have voted to reopen). When the bikeshedders have the 3k rep to vote to reopen ensuring that the question stays in a closed but not deleted state can only be done with locking. –  Servy Apr 11 '13 at 19:24
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@Servy: If it reopens, I'm going to close it again. –  Robert Harvey Apr 11 '13 at 19:25
    
@Robert - please do (close it again). Just note that many of us are voting to re-open as a way to prevent it from being deleted. (Re-opening it does clear away all delete votes, right?) –  Adam Rackis Apr 11 '13 at 21:36
    
I have an idea about writing a web app in another language. Is it a good idea to add a new question about that? –  Bo Persson Apr 11 '13 at 21:43
    
Robert - do you have a link to that old SO question on "Favorite foods to eat while coding"? That might be a good example of a delete-worthy question satisfying your criterion. –  Adam Rackis Apr 11 '13 at 22:40
    
@Jueecy.new: No. –  Robert Harvey Apr 12 '13 at 23:11
    
@Jueecy.new: Hell to freeze over. –  Robert Harvey Apr 15 '13 at 1:20
    
@Jueecy.new: So was my answer. This is one of those rare cases where the deletionists are just going to try and delete the question, and the inclusionists are just going to try and reopen it. Neither state is ideal. –  Robert Harvey Apr 15 '13 at 1:44
    
@Jueecy.new: Unless some other mod decides to override my decision, yes. Or, we can get some kind of consensus here. –  Robert Harvey Apr 15 '13 at 2:02
    
@Jueecy.new: Look at the question's history. –  Robert Harvey Apr 15 '13 at 2:25
    
@Jueecy.new: Well, it currently has 3 reopen votes and 2 delete votes, so I disagree that consensus has been achieved. Why do you want it unlocked? –  Robert Harvey Apr 15 '13 at 17:01
    
@Jueecy.new: Wat? If the question gets deleted, any rep you gained on the post will go right down the toilet. –  Robert Harvey Apr 15 '13 at 17:01
    
@Jueecy.new How long are we going to keep talking about this question? >_< –  Robert Harvey Apr 15 '13 at 17:03
    
I've cleared the discussion above because it was dumb as hell by my part and I was ashamed of it. :D –  Jefffrey Jun 21 at 16:13

This question qualifies for being "too broad." The short answer is "yes." The long answer is "in an infinite number of ways."

While many questions may have useful answers, we're looking for question which seek out specific knowledge. As it stands, someone could dump ten years' experience into an answer, and still not completely answer this question.

It is thus not constructive for StackOverflow, where we look for specific answers and details. This is likely to start into a debate over the best way to build said website, or provide conflicting information from conflicting experience.

Regardless of the quality of the question, I am of the opinion that questions with good answers should never be deleted. If a question doesn't fit for SO, close it, yes, but don't delete the question if it's accumulated a good answer.

In short, questions should have definitive answers. While this one may have had a helpful answer, there is no way to provide an absolute solution.

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"As it stands, someone could dump ten years' experience into an answer, and still not completely answer this question." It's true, but it would be a very informative answer nonetheless. –  Jefffrey Apr 11 '13 at 16:29
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@Jueecy Hence, while the question should be closed, I don't think it should be deleted. –  Emrakul Apr 11 '13 at 16:30
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And a brand new delete vote. I guess some people think deleting that answer along with the question will "Make the internet better" –  Adam Rackis Apr 11 '13 at 18:30

The question as written is too open-ended and broad to be answered without debate.

Is it possible to make a web app in ruby without using a framework? And if yes, why are frameworks chosen by most ruby web developers?

This clearly fall into the definition of not-constructive:

As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or specific expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, see the FAQ for guidance.

I added the emphasis to point out the key reason this question is not constructive. It could lead to extended discussion on why frameworks are chosen by ruby developers. Answers should be definitive and should not lead to debates.

The answer, that you point out as great, demonstrates the problem with the question by pointing out pros and cons to frameworks - are these opinions or facts that are being outlined. If they are factual, then there should be references to support these claims.

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Your point about references for the pros and cons is a very good one. –  Josh Caswell Apr 11 '13 at 19:39

The question fails on multiple points, but for me, obviousness/lack of research is tops.

  1. Obviously we don't have to use a framework, because the language can support a framework–therefore the mechanisms for writing a web app exist in the ecosystem.
  2. Why to use a framework is language-neutral, and documented all over the place.

I find the answer too long, with only the TL;DR and Pros/Cons sections interesting.

Other resources for how to write a web app in Ruby, using a variety of mechanisms, exist, and the topic is too broad for a good SO answer. There was no call for an example of one.

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