What is meta? ×
Meta Stack Exchange is where users like you discuss bugs, features, and support issues that affect the software powering all 131 Stack Exchange communities.

I noticed there are quite a few questions about the Populist badge. Some people are confused about its purpose, or upset about its existence, yet others simply wonder why they didn't get theirs.

I just want to change the Populist Badge's description from:

Highest scoring answer that outscored an accepted answer with score of more than 10 by more than 2x

to

Highest scoring answer that outscored an accepted answer with score of more than 10, by more than 2x

Adding only a single comma. Yes - this is a tiny change, but I think it will be clearer, because in my opinion the original description tend to mislead you to think that your own qualifying answer had to have at least 10 upvotes and be 2 times the accepted answer's score. I believe this change makes it clear that the accepted answer's score must be at least 10, while the qualifying answers score should be twice the accepted answer's.

share|improve this question
    
What the? I don't even understand what the original description is talking about. –  Old Checkmark Jul 11 '13 at 19:09
    
had to have at least 10 upvotes : The accepted answer score must be at least 11. More than 10 is "11 or more". Double that would mean the lowest qualifying Answer to gain the Badge would be an accepted answer of 11 and an outscoring answer of 22. –  JoshDM Jul 11 '13 at 19:10
    
@JoshDM, thanks for explaining. –  Old Checkmark Jul 11 '13 at 19:12
4  
Eats, shoots, and leaves –  Adam Rackis Jul 11 '13 at 19:32
    
Rephrasing the description sounds fine if it's too complex, but I'm pretty sure just adding that comma would be entirely grammatically incorrect. –  Anna Lear Jul 11 '13 at 19:54
    
@AnnaLear - should I create my own question for rephrasing based on my suggestions in the answer below, or is Inbar's question good enough for that? –  JoshDM Jul 11 '13 at 21:26
1  
@JoshDM I just edited the title on this question to be more general, so I think we're good to just stay here now. –  Anna Lear Jul 11 '13 at 21:28
2  
Whatever the choice that is picked, I'd be interested in seeing it lead off with "Highest scoring non-accepted answer", so you know right away that if you have an accepted answer, this badge isn't for you. –  LittleBobbyTables Jul 11 '13 at 21:45
    
@JoshDM, shouldn't the outscoring answer at 23 instead 22? because 22 is exactly the double of 11 which does not fulfill the by more than 2x condition. –  ruffp Nov 5 '13 at 17:34
    
@ruffp - shouldn't the populist badge description be clarified? –  JoshDM Nov 5 '13 at 17:50
    
@JoshDM, yes I think so... but it was not clear if the rule is exactly twice or more or strictly more than double of the accepted answer. Anyway by looking the other answers it looks it is 23, then the description is correct. –  ruffp Nov 5 '13 at 20:53

6 Answers 6

Given Unaccepted Answer U, Accepted Answer A: U.Score > A.Score x 2, while A.Score > 10

Screw it. Just post the real code. People will have a better chance at understanding it than this convoluted English thing.

share|improve this answer

Even with the comma added, the description of the badge is still convoluted.

I propose some version of any of the following sentences [braces indicate a text choice]:

Highest scoring answer scoring more than [double | twice] the value of an accepted answer which [scored | scores] 11[+ | or more].

or

Highest scoring answer outscoring an accepted answer [with a score of | scoring] 11 [+ | or more] by more than [twice | double].

or

Highest scoring answer outscoring by more than [twice | double] an accepted answer [with a score of | scoring] 11[+ | or more].

Of the listed versions, my personal preference/combination is:

Highest scoring answer outscoring by more than double an accepted answer scoring 11+.

which is 15 characters less than the original (14 if you count the period) and says the same thing much more clearly. I have a personal preference to use "+" instead of "or more" and if given the chance would replace most instances of "or more" in the badge descriptions with "+". Since my request to replace "or more" likely won't happen, my alternate preference would be:

Highest scoring answer outscoring by more than double an accepted answer scoring 11 or more.

which is 7 characters less than the original (8 if you count the period).

share|improve this answer
    
I think this is much clearer - though you could even add "...by at least twice its value." –  Ben D Jul 11 '13 at 18:18
    
I adjusted it a bit. I think the "at least" can be implied, but I included it. –  JoshDM Jul 11 '13 at 18:46
    
I may be the only person left who cares, but in my vocabulary "outscores with at least twice" means for an 11 vote answer you need 22 or more, but "outscores by at least twice means you need 33 or more. Please keep it at with. –  Kate Gregory Jul 11 '13 at 18:52
    
I threw another iteration in using double instead of twice and "scored" instead of "score". As I said initially, "some iteration". Anyway, I think you get the badge at 22 if the accepted is 11, right? –  JoshDM Jul 11 '13 at 18:59
    
@KateGregory - I see what you mean; I think the new first one will appeal to you. –  JoshDM Jul 11 '13 at 19:04
1  
@JoshDM I believe if the accepted is 11, you require 23... (more than twice) –  Jon Clements Jul 11 '13 at 19:08
    
Ah right; more than twice. I misread the original. –  JoshDM Jul 11 '13 at 19:11
    
@JoshDM yes, I like the first or second. The third or fourth would need to say "outscored by at least the accepted answers own score" or something - if there is to be a "by" then there should be no "double" –  Kate Gregory Jul 11 '13 at 19:12

How about:

Highest scoring answer, scoring over twice the score of the accepted answer, and the accepted answer has a score of at least 11

Even when I posted this, I considered a more detailed explanation, which I didn't post, as the descriptions are usually concise. However, there are other badges (e.g. Outspoken) that have a concise description as well as a detailed description.
So here's the detailed description I propose:

I've been thinking about this for a while and have come up with what I think is a better suggestion than I made in my previous answer:

A populist badge is awarded to a user for an answer (A) to a question (Q), if all of the following conditions are met at the time of awarding:

  1. A is not the accepted answer
  2. A is the highest scoring answer (say the score is S)
  3. the accepted answer (A') has a score of S' and S' <= S/2
  4. S' >= 10
share|improve this answer

If we have decided to go for rephrasing then I would suggest something simple on the eyes and on the English language (many users have trouble with confusing English) and not something that is trying to be as short as possible.

Have the highest scoring non-accepted answer which scores at least twice as much as the accepted answer. The accepted answer's score must be at least 10.

However, Regardless of the way you write the description, I think it is fundamentally a badge with more than a few pitfalls. I won't discuss them to much here, there are entire posts devoted to modifying the badge parameters, however - I think a much simpler explanation of the badge (which is not exactly following the formula, but makes it simpler to understand:

Have a non-accepted answer that scores at least 20 and twice as much as the accepted answer.

I know this makes it seem like it is changing the definition, but really - it is not, if I must be simultaneously both double the score of the accepted answer, and at least 20, then the accepted answer must be at least 10.. satisfying all conditions, and making the wording easier.


I have recently found this list of the full descriptions of badges where it is written about the Populist badge:

Populist

  • gold; awarded multiple times
  • Provide an answer that meets all of the following criteria (source):
    • it is the highest scoring answer on the question (source)
    • it does not have the accepted checkmark
    • it has a score of at least 23
    • it has more than double the score of the accepted answer
    • the accepted answer has a score of at least 11
    • it is not an answer to your own question (source)

Following these rules, I would re-word my "simple" idea to the following:

Answer another users question with the highest scoring non-accepted answer that scores at least 23 and is scored at least twice as much as the accepted answer.

share|improve this answer
1  
+1 for striving to keep it simple, didn't understand the badge before this :-) –  kleopatra Jul 14 '13 at 8:49
2  
According to the original, it must also be the highest scoring answer overall. –  JoshDM Jul 14 '13 at 14:40
    
You are right. In fact, there are a few things I just found out about it that I will add as well.... –  Inbar Rose Jul 14 '13 at 14:42
    
In your "simple" definition, you missed that the accepted answer has to have at least 11 votes. I think this is important because people might wonder if they don't get the badge. –  pascalhein Jul 14 '13 at 18:03
    
If you are referring to the definitions above the line break, then disregard them and read after the line beak. If you are talking about the last 'definition' at the end of my answer, then consider - how can the accepted answer not be at least 11 if your answer is at least 23 and twice at least the accepted answers score. –  Inbar Rose Jul 15 '13 at 7:55

Here's my formulation (may contain traces of nuts):

Highest scoring non-accepted answer with more than 2x the score of the accepted answer. The accepted answer must have a score of at least 11.

I think instead of forcing everything into a single sentence, splitting into 2 sentences might allow for a clearer explanation (yes, I know that the first sentence isn't a complete sentence, but you get my gist).

share|improve this answer

I’d suggest something along the lines of:

Highest scoring answer with score of 22 or higher and more than twice the score of the accepted answer

Or whatever’s actually right — I’m not sure I even understand the actual badge criteria. Do you need 21? 22? 30? 33?

share|improve this answer
5  
You need 23 on an 11, apparently. Which moderator was drunk when they sculpted this? –  JoshDM Jul 11 '13 at 19:14
1  
I'm not sure if I'm a fan of stating "with score of 23 or higher", because it just looks arbitrary and goofy (I can see people asking, "Why 23?"), but then again, it does make it clearer where you need to be, score-wise. Is it worth having Highest scoring non-accepted answer just to make things even clearer? –  LittleBobbyTables Jul 11 '13 at 21:42
    
You could just round off and say, "with a score of 25 or higher and more than twice..." –  Nathaniel Ford Jul 11 '13 at 22:05
    
@minitech Whilst this is unambiguous, as a new user I'd be wondering what on earth is so significant about 22. This doesn't tell the significance of that number: that it's the result of scoring twice as much as an already-accepted nice answer. –  doppelgreener Jul 12 '13 at 4:40
1  
@JonathanHobbs: I’d rather change the badge criteria to 20, actually. It may seem… radical… but it alleviates this confusion and also the confusion that “22 still feels like a weird number even if I know what it means”. Er, 23. (See what I mean?) Good point, though ­— I’d like to find a way to add that non-awkwardly if the badge can’t be changed. –  minitech Jul 12 '13 at 4:49
    
I just realised that this wording leaves out the fact that the accepted answer has to have a score above 10. This wording would suggest to me if I score 20 on a question where the accepted answer has a score of 1, I'd get this badge. –  doppelgreener Jul 12 '13 at 4:55
    
@minitech I think I would be okay with such a radical change. :) –  doppelgreener Jul 12 '13 at 4:55

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .