What is meta? ×
Meta Stack Exchange is where users like you discuss bugs, features, and support issues that affect the software powering all 134 Stack Exchange communities.

As a new user, I find it impossible to contribute to the community or to even begin contributing. I know why the reputation system is in place and I respect it, but at the same time it is too hard on new users.

It started with me wanting to upvote a question...

"Vote Up requires 15 reputation"

Just to appreciate a good question that helped me I need 15 rep? OK..., so I find out how I can get reputation points. More or less, I need to ask a question for +5 and add an answer for +10. I don't have any questions at the moment and I don't want to spam a random question, but I did happen to have a slightly different answer to the earlier question that I wanted to upvote. So I try to answer...

This question is protected to prevent "thanks!", "me too!", or spam answers by new users. To answer it, you must have earned at least 10 reputation on this site.

Now... I know this doesn't apply to every question, but at the same time, this means I'm forced to answer yet another question, and I don't want to go around looking for random questions and spam irrelevant answers... Now I'm stuck. So I try to talk to some other users in the chat rooms about how to go about getting reputation points and how they first started. I entered into a "casual chat room".

You must have 20 reputation on Meta Stack Overflow to talk here.

Yes... I can understand why this is enforced, because we don't want new users to spam chat rooms, but all I wanted to do was ask for help. So I can't even talk to anyone about my newbie problems. So okay, I'll just settle for upvoting comments in the question that helped me. I don't see an upvote hover-over button so I can't even do that.

So now I'm stuck at 1 reputation point, unable to cross that 15 rep barrier, and even after posting this question I'll only have 6 rep points and still unable to do anything, and I'll be forced to look for questions to answer. Yes, I should be contributing to the community, but I shouldn't need to begin answering or making questions to upvote questions and answers. This only spurs more spam/irrelevant answers if anything.

Very, very, very new-user UNfriendly.

share|improve this question
28  
Actually, it is very, very, very spammer unfriendly. All of the restrictions you mentioned are there to make spammers and abusers go away. Blame them. –  Robert Harvey Jul 12 '13 at 16:15
4  
"As a new user, I find it impossible to contribute to the community or to even begin contributing." Ask questions and provide answers. –  Jack Maney Jul 12 '13 at 16:20
3  
You just reached the 20 reps barrier here in Meta ;) –  brasofilo Jul 12 '13 at 16:29
2  
I see what you mean Robert, I guess the root cause of my frustration was that I had to ask a ask a question or make an answer before I could even upvote/thank someone (which isn't a feature that can be spammed anyways). As well as the fact that I had to encounter all these spam blockers before I could become a more active member. @brasofilo, yes I guess I realized getting 15 rep isn't too hard. –  gitsitgo Jul 12 '13 at 16:34
13  
@gitsitgo I can understand your confusion and frustration, but actually upvoting is probably our most-spammed feature; people create a bunch of accounts to serial-upvote their own (or their friends') answers, and serial-downvote the answers of people they don't like. Is it silly, and do we wish it was a perfect world where we didn't have to protect the site from people like that? Yep. But unfortunately it happens a lot. –  WendiKidd Jul 12 '13 at 16:41
3  
@WendiKidd Wasn't aware of that, thanks. Quite sad that there exist people like that in the world. –  gitsitgo Jul 12 '13 at 16:46
5  
It's a sheer stroke of bad luck that the first question you tried to answer was protected. In my 1 year of being an active member here I can count on my fingers how many protected questions I've seen. –  Ataraxia Jul 12 '13 at 21:03
2  
I'm not sure I understand the big deal; what more "participation" do you want from a questions and answers site than the ability to ask questions and submit answers? Do you just want the ability to push buttons that in the end don't have anything to do with asking questions or submitting answers? –  Justin L. Jul 12 '13 at 22:58
5  
Put it this way Justin, pretend for a second that you're so new that you don't feel comfortable jumping into answering just yet. But being a respectful member, you want to thank answers that have helped you by giving them an upvote. Then you get 'nope, no can do, we don't acknowledge you at the moment so we don't even want your thanks.' How would a new user feel about that? –  gitsitgo Jul 13 '13 at 4:37

7 Answers 7

up vote 32 down vote accepted

I find it impossible to contribute to the community or to even begin contributing.

Yes, it is intentionally difficult for new users to participate in parts of the site we do not want new users participating in.

You are certainly welcome to ask and answer questions - which is the primary focus of the site - and you are certainly welcome to read questions and answers and take advantage of all the knowledge this site has to offer. Indeed, this is the best way to familiarize yourself with how to formulate questions and answers that are suitable for this site.

We restrict voting, commenting, and chatting to users who have spent some time participating in the primary goal - questions and answers. We find, in fact, that encouraging new users to participate in the main activity first, they become more aware of the community and its standards and, for lack of a better term, flavor of discussion, before they risk offending the community by voting, commenting, or chatting in a manner that goes against the grain.

Further, by forcing new users into a chute that allows only a certain type of interaction with the site we push the idea and concept that this is first, and foremost, a question and answer site. The primary participation for the entire community is, and should be, adding questions and answers.

Everything else - and I mean everything - exists solely to support asking questions and getting answers. These other aspects of the system are not side quests, or alternate games - they are only here to make Q&A better.

Now - as to seeming user unfriendly.

The reality is that if a new user finds this forced focus on Q&A uncomfortable then they will likely find the site uncomfortable in the long run and we want to weed out people who aren't here for asking and answering questions.

share|improve this answer
2  
I understand all your points, except it's still user unfriendly IMO. New users generally might not know what is a good question/answer so its naturally for people to stick around and see how the system works until they know more. But all these spam blocking features on the more minor "game aspects" of the system discourages new users even more. –  gitsitgo Jul 12 '13 at 17:31
3  
Yep. They discourage users from doing things we don't want new users doing. New users should be interested in asking or answering questions, and if they are interested in playing the game, well there are other websites where they can play games. It's all about the questions and answers here. –  Adam Davis Jul 12 '13 at 21:06
3  
Remarkably unfriendly, unwelcoming, hostile tone to this answer. –  DanBeale Jul 12 '13 at 21:27
2  
@DanBeale I agree. But the tone nonwithstanding it makes a very good point –  Ataraxia Jul 12 '13 at 21:33
6  
I was trying to match the tone of the OP. "So now I'm stuck at 1 rep point, unable to cross that 15 rep barrier, and even after posting this question I'll only have 6 rep points and still unable to do anything, and I'll be forced to look for questions to answer. Yes I should be contributing to the community but" might as well have ended with "I don't want to." Keep in mind, however, that I don't represent Stack Exchange, and am an old curmudgeon from when the site was in beta, but haven't actively participated for years now. I just poke my head in and stir things up occasionally... –  Adam Davis Jul 12 '13 at 21:58
    
@DanBeale I modified my answer significantly. I don't know if it's more friendly, but it better conveys the point. –  Adam Davis Jul 12 '13 at 22:11
3  
Being a relatively new user and prone to search for hours or days before giving up and asking a question, I greatly sympathize with the gitsitgo. If your answer, Adam, could be condensed into a sentence or two and appear on most every page near the title or in the masthead(right column), particularly on general public pages (e.g. not logged in), it would go a long way toward avoiding the appearance of arrogance that prospective users can often get from their first attempts to participate here. –  DocSalvager Jul 18 '13 at 6:22

We need those restrictions to prevent abuse. So how do you get around?

You can go through some questions and see if they need improvement. You can edit them. Correct grammar, spelling, formatting. It's called a suggested edit. (But please don't make edits that are too minor.)

If an edit of yours gets approved you get 2 rep points. Do this with 7 posts and you have 15 rep.

share|improve this answer
10  
Shall I correct your spelling of "grammer", or shall I leave it to the OP? –  Daniel Fischer Jul 12 '13 at 16:13
2  
@DanielFischer: Ironic? –  Robert Harvey Jul 12 '13 at 16:16
4  
Finally someone corrected me spelling grammar. –  juergen d Jul 12 '13 at 16:20
1  
You mean "MY"... –  Johnny Bones Jul 12 '13 at 16:55
2  
Nah, he's clearly Scottish. –  Joe Jul 12 '13 at 20:14
3  
Please don't send another new person to make 'too minor' edits all over the place. –  Rosinante Jul 12 '13 at 22:50

A second way that many people take is to find a site within the StackExchange network that is a bit friendlier than Stack Overflow, where reputation comes easier. Once you get 200 reputation on any single SE site, then all of your SE sites get a 100 reputation bonus. And then you aren't stuck at the limited reputation levels.

share|improve this answer
1  
Seems like meta might be that 200 rep site –  Richard Tingle Jul 12 '13 at 20:41
    
Sometimes it works;-) –  PearsonArtPhoto Jul 12 '13 at 21:34

The main purpose of Stack Overflow is to provide excellent answers to programming questions. Therefore, the best thing you can do is PROVIDE ANSWERS. "I don't want to go looking for questions to answer" is not the attitude promoted here. Personally, I find it invigorating to check SO every hour or so and see if there are new questions in my area of expertise, because at one time I was a n00b with limited skill and (at the time) didn't have resources like SO to answer my questions.

So, I guess the answer you may or may not want to hear is; keep answering questions! Eventually you'll have the points necessary to perform any function you want.

share|improve this answer
    
OP couldn't answer because answering protected questions requires 10 reputation. –  tepples Dec 8 at 18:37

The spam protection is very important. See for example PrimeFaces forum, which is flooding in spam from hydra-accounts (you delete one, two new are registered).

It should not be a problem to a new user. It wasn't a problem to me and my collegues. Your use case is a bit unusual. We began reading Stack Overflow questions and answer, being redirected from Google Search. We only created an account when we had a question to ask. 15 reputation is only 3 upvotes on the question, and when you provide some answer (even to your own question) the reputation would come very quickly.

Disclaimer: I don't have any statistics. I just haven't seen anyone in a workspace who would register only to upvote questions or answers. They register first when they have a question to ask.

share|improve this answer
    
Yep, in hindsight, 15 rep was pretty quick to gain, but I really don't see why there can't be a "lurker" type user that begins by mainly upvoting. Upvoting is part of contributing to the community as well, as it marks questions as valid/good and it can also be a form of appreciation. There are tons of people using SO without an account, and the thing that converts them into an active user is because they want to upvote a question. I know there are others like me because I've found similar questions being asked before. –  gitsitgo Jul 12 '13 at 16:44
1  
@gitsitgo There is a unregistered voting system (you are asked "was this post helpful? Yes/No") implemented a while ago, but as far as I know the data from the system isn't used for very much. –  Jeremy Banks Jul 12 '13 at 17:11
    
Voting should be restricted to members of the community who actively participate. Do we really want to know what people who just whiz by briefly think? No, not really. –  Joe Jul 12 '13 at 18:25
    
@Joe I see where you're coming from, but that's assuming people who don't post answers "whiz by". For instance, there have been times I ran through all solutions of a question to verify them (and wanted to upvote the good solutions), but I didn't have an answer myself. Just because I didn't answer, does that mean I didn't go through a question diligently? –  gitsitgo Jul 12 '13 at 20:10
1  
Just voting is not active participation. If you're just voting on questions, then yes, you are whizzing by in my estimation. Participation involves asking and/or answering questions. You don't give a championship ring to everyone who 'liked' the team's facebook page, right? You give it to everyone who played in the game, or contributed to the team's success in a meaningful way. Same here, but on a smaller/larger scale. –  Joe Jul 12 '13 at 20:12

It all starts with a click...

Usually new users start to use Stack Overflow by simply clicking a link from Google Search and marveling at the fact that not only was their situation reproduced, but a solution which worked and had community consensus was present.

The process of making those situations available while ensuring that content quality remains as high as possible involves some protection. Some of these protections include requiring users to become accustomed to the dynamics of how the Stack Exchange network works before contributing to issues with which there is already a very strong consensus.

It is encouraging to hear that an answer here helped you. Sorry that you feel like it is hard on new users, but it isn't meant to be a deterrent to the user. It is merely an attempt to protect content quality and all of the hard work so many users in the community have already put in.

If you wish to attain reputation, ask a unique question, post a working/useful answer, or suggest edits. I certainly haven't ever gotten reputation points without doing one of those three things.

share|improve this answer

As it has already been said, the limits are here for protecting against spam and contribute by providing good answers is the best way if you do not have good questions.

You have to see for example the advanced search tips to try to find the best unanswered questions and the following is one of the query I often put in the search box:

[java] is:question answers:0 closed:no score:2-3

After you can tune it to search negatively voted question (some are even good to answer, even silly) or putting more tags e.g

[spring] [java] [jms] is:question answers:0 closed:no

After you can sort by the most recent (more probability the OP will vote or accept your answer) and to choose the question with bounties (Questions -> featured tab, and add a [tag] in the search box if necessary).

In the beginning I just started with few questions (which were not already asked) I had about by daily work and trying to provide answer to the same subject and I got more than 200 rep quite easily as well by providing an accepted answer to a bounty question.

share|improve this answer

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .