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For example, the following question was asked 9 minutes ago at the time of the screen shot.

It has had 28 views and I'm the only person that has down-voted the question as of this time.

Also, I'm only the second person to vote to close the question.

enter image description here

Here are the comments

enter image description here

Questions like these should have at least 5 downvotes after 20 views.

They should also be closed within 15 minutes.

I think this is an example of people being overly nice. The person that asked the question was very demanding to top it off.

Tell me what code I have to write? & why it is happening? I want that complete page displayed properly

Here's a link to the question. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21562937/how-to-create-a-web-page-with-a-perfect-layout-which-adjusts-automatically-itsel

UPDATE -

A moderator gave some hard facts on this thread https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/219685/stackoverflow-users-much-more-likely-to-downvote-than-upvote , only moments ago.

enter image description here

So in response to all those other threads and comments I've seen on meta asking for people to be "nicer" to new users who ask bad questions...

I say that you, I, and everyone else needs to take the emotion out of your voting habits, if you have not done so already. Your vote should not take into account that a user is new, what you had for lunch, or anything else unrelated to the quality of the question itself.

So do you agree that we need to start downvoting more, and voting to close earlier when we see bad questions?

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18
  • 1
    Unfortunately, a lot of people with close votes (or down votes) don't use them at all.
    – user213963
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:02
  • 5
    You're also assuming that all 20 people who viewed the question have close privileges. Maybe they don't. Note that the question did atract a "recommend closure" flag from someone who didn't have close privileges.
    – user102937
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:04
  • 6
    If you have a response to a question, why not post it as an answer to that question?
    – Bill the Lizard
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:05
  • Not really, it's a case of wrong audience. If it was tagged php as it should be, I'm pretty sure what you describe would have happened. As it stands, users with HTML/CSS experience came over, saw it's not their cup of tea and left silently.
    – Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:05
  • 2
    @RobertHarvey There were a number of users who commented who had more than enough rep to vote to close, but didn't.
    – Servy
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:05
  • @ShadowWizard Looks like a html/css question to me. It's about responsive design, just because the html is generated by php doesn't make it a php question.
    – CodesInChaos
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:06
  • 2
    @CodesInChaos no. codeigniter is PHP framework. From what I've seen the OP is looking for help with codeigniter templates. True its final output is HTML and CSS but so is any server side language output...
    – Shadow Wizard Love Zelda
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:08
  • This is at most a single instance of something. Are you saying there is a greater underlying problem here?
    – Bart
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:09
  • 11
    Not for nothing, but some folks get a little tired of arguing with others about their close votes. I personally find it nearly impossible to interact with the site as an ordinary user anymore, since all I wind up doing is closing questions, and then getting called out for "abusing" my binding vote.
    – user102937
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:10
  • 4
    Also, @BilltheLizard has a point. If there's a reasonable answer to the question ("Learn about Media queries"), then why not post it as an answer with a short example? You can leave the remaining part of the implementation as an exercise for the OP. If the icanhazcodez part of the question offends you, why not just edit it out of the question and clean it up? Now you have a canonical resource that is useful to others. What's not to like?
    – user102937
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:13
  • 1
    @RobertHarvey That's what you get for being a mod ;). Perhaps you should get a second account to 3k rep just to go around casting non-binding close votes. I know I've almost never been hassled for casting my (non-binding) close votes. If I'm hassled, it's only ever because I tried to comment explaining how the post could be fixed.
    – Servy
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:18
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    You disagree with a point brought up in another discussion. That's an answer, not a question.
    – Bill the Lizard
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:20
  • 4
    @AlienArrays: noobz posting their zomg questionz is a self-correcting problem. While the question is a bit deer-in-the-headlights, it's not a particularly bad one. It has the virtue of having broad appeal; many people have this same question.
    – user102937
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:21
  • 3
    If a deer gets struck by a car because it froze in front of headlights, its son/daughter (watching on) is unlikely to make the same mistake. This is how communities and societies evolve. Simple fact.
    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Feb 5, 2014 at 2:24
  • 2
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit of course, if a deer gets struck by a car, it won't have any more children. Not sure how that shifts the statistics.
    – John Dvorak
    Feb 5, 2014 at 6:09

5 Answers 5

Reset to default
15

Let's be sure to separate two actions as is appropriate:

  • Using the editing and voting tools appropriately and objectively.
  • Using effective commenting strategies.

Being nice doesn't mean we mustn't cast downvotes on a post. It simply means we should be constructive in the comments. We should downvote low quality content, but not be a jerk about it when commenting. I usually leave comments like this after downvoting and close voting:

Hello user, welcome to Stack Overflow. Questions about X aren't really what our site is about. Instead, <-perform Y action to bring the question in line with scope->, which will help get you better answers and make it easy for the community to vet them.

I think it's important to distinguish between being nice and using the tools to edit, downvote, and close questions that don't fit the site's scope. Good comments help teach new users how to behave, which maximizes the chances of them becoming good users in the future.

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11

Being nice and taking appropriate action are not mutually exclusive. Your post relies on this assumption.

I'm not actually sure what you're asking, because as far as I can see you didn't ask anything - still, a couple thoughts.

First, while yes, the question should be closed, it's not criminal if a few escape the close vote radar. Second, the ratio of views to votes is always low, regardless of the question. Third, people seem to have a mindset that they cannot be nice and take critical action - this is simply not true.

That is all.

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3

It's an example of the majority of contributors to the tag (a) not understanding what Stack Overflow is, and (b) being repwhores.

Nothing more.

Okay so it's not tagged PHP — osmosis and keywords in the body text dictate that fanatics were involved here, though. And, let's face it, and are no better anyway…

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2

Whenever I see a new user post a bad question, I usually edit the question so that it meets SO's standards. If it's unsalvageable, I downvote and/or flag it (I can't close) and post a comment that says, "Welcome to StackOverflow! Unfortunately, your question [isn't so good because reasons]. I suggest you read [help page link]." This pushes the OP towards writing better questions while still treating him/her nicely.

@Robert Havey expressed a similar sentiment in his comment above:

Also, @BilltheLizard has a point. If there's a reasonable answer to the question ("Learn about Media queries"), then why not post it as an answer with a short example? You can leave the remaining part of the implementation as an exercise for the OP. If the icanhazcodez part of the question offends you, why not just edit it out of the question and clean it up? Now you have a canonical resource that is useful to others. What's not to like?

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1
  • Editing is great and I thank you for it, but I see far too often that new users' posts are edited for them so often that they demonstrably never learn to do it themselves. I've seen low-rep users who have been on SO for two years and have asked 20 questions and still do not format their posts in even the most basic fashion. They don't need to, right? Because someone will come along and do it for them twenty seconds later...
    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Feb 10, 2014 at 12:59
-10

While I agree it should be closed what does piling on down votes actually accomplish. The user has no rep to lose, so all it appears to them is that people here are mean and do not want to help, so I guess I should just leave.

With new users I am of the opinion you should give them the benefit of doubt unless the question is really bad, as in probably trolling, or wants to know if Yoda could beat Ironman bad (he could by the way). I do not think the question the new user asked is. I definitely see room for improvement and realistically you could improve that question with out much effort to make it a great question.

Instead of pushing new users away help them out! That does not mean you do not down vote or close at all. But the effect to a new user of -2 or -3 is going to be an indication to them to fix it if they are going to try and make it work.

Finally. Coming to MSO to recruit a lynch mob to pile on downvotes on a new user should be strongly discouraged. Go to chat and ask for close votes but this is crazy

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  • 5
    What it accomplishes is that it pushes the user closer to question-banned status.
    – user102937
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:06
  • 8
    1) The user does have rep to lose, although that is not the primary motivation here. 2) It provides a signal that this is a poor quality question not welcome on the site. Without it, he wouldn't know that he had asked a poor quality question. 3) It feeds the question ban algorithm, so that if he doesn't improve his contributions he may be banned from continuing to contribute poor quality content. 4) It's a signal to people looking at the question from the questions page that the question is of low quality 5) It allows for automatic deletion if the question is never improved over time.
    – Servy
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:08
  • 3
    @RobertHarvey - I do not think that is a good thing in 99% of the cases.
    – Chad
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:08
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    @Chad So you want to see more people continuing to ask very poor quality questions indefinitely, dramatically reducing the quality of the site's content, driving away experts due to an excessive number of poor quality questions, etc.? If so...I disagree. Strongly. Thankfully there are lots of q/a sites out there that don't give a damn about the quality of your questions. Perhaps those sites would better suit you.
    – Servy
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:10
  • 2
    @Chad They aren't mutually exclusive options. You can do both. Just because I downvote a poor quality question doesn't mean I can't add a comment explaining how it can be improved. Just because I comment helping the user improve his question doesn't mean I can't downvote.
    – Servy
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:11
  • 4
    "Unless it makes you feel superior to the noob" ... you're veering wildly off-track there. Votes are nothing personal. Even though you seem to take them as such.
    – Bart
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:12
  • 2
    A great moment to learn that they are not then.
    – Bart
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:13
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    The question was only 9 minutes old. I'd give the OP some more time to improve it until I'd hit him with down-/close-vote. The OP at least showed some effort taking a screenshot, I'd consider the chances of them improving the post not so small compared to the usual no-effort questions.
    – CodesInChaos
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:14
  • 2
    @CodesInChaos I find that in many cases downvotes can be very motivating. People find it a lot easier to just ignore comments asking for improvements to the question, especially if they're getting positive feedback through voting. When there is both downvotes and comments indicating how to improve a question there's a stronger motivation to actually take the time/effort to do something. Also, see my first comment, feedback to the user is just one of many reasons to downvote. The others (except the first) are also very important.
    – Servy
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:32
  • 4
    @Chad That just defers the problem. Then the user will get to 100 or 500, or whatever rep and wonder why all of a sudden they're getting tons of downvotes for asking the exact same quality of questions. You shouldn't need to know or care what the author's rep is when deciding how to vote on it. You should vote on all posts based on the post's quality, and nothing more.
    – Servy
    Feb 4, 2014 at 21:43
  • 4
    @Chad they got their answers to their original questions. They've gotten lost to the great chaff of SO's long tail. The question was closed and they move on with what drive by upvotes thinking that its ok. And 20 questions later (+1 or so on the questions) they've established a habit of how they ask questions rather than fixing the problem from the start. Without the negative votes and deletions on the questions, the qban doesn't kick in and they don't learn what a good question is (not theirs).
    – user213963
    Feb 4, 2014 at 22:29
  • 3
    @Chad its not about bullying - its about providing feedback (positive and negative) to people to help guide them into the norms of the community. Prompt feedback is essential to this - closing a month or year old question doesnt help them understand now that this question is of poor quality. People constantly ask questions and dont get back any feedback about what is not acceptable quality. The site and the quality of the network depends on people asking good questions and people giving good answers. It is essential to work to maintain the quality by trying to get the good material to shine.
    – user213963
    Feb 4, 2014 at 22:41
  • 2
    Getting that good material to shine does mean trying to separate the poor questions from the good, and down, close, and delete is part of that. Trying to get people to ask better questions through only up votes and comments doesn't work well (consider how often a request for "can you give me more information" goes unheeded or considered to be rude) - especially once they get someone who gave them their answer... they'll do it again and again.
    – user213963
    Feb 4, 2014 at 22:43
  • 2
    @Chad I'll certainly agree that this question is poorly done in that I doubt the goal was to call out attention to one question. However, we do want examples when someone says "something is wrong" and, thus the difficulty there. However, it is difficult to complain about the quality of questions if one doesn't also use the tool of down and close vote too. Those are the only tools that have 'teeth' as such - everything else is merely advisory and ignorable. On a site as large as SO, people really do need to be more active in community moderation and I see this question as an attempt at that
    – user213963
    Feb 4, 2014 at 22:53
  • 2
    It has nothing to do with the user's rep. It's about relative question score, showing the question value relative to other questions. That's all there is to it..
    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Feb 5, 2014 at 2:23

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