Timeline for Magic wand time - what does your community need?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
31 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jul 31, 2021 at 11:48 | comment | added | ColeValleyGirl | @Makoto, it (stickiness') is also something that would be desirable for a large number (even all) of the smaller sites -- it isn't site specific. And even the larger sites could probably benefif from mor epeople who stay around after their first question. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 17:21 | comment | added | ColeValleyGirl | @Makoto My basic sticking point is the likelihood of finding somebody who would really be able to effectively advocate for use for us and some other communities (which I suspect would end up randomly chosen). Especially since, if we graduated, what would they do then? | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 17:08 | comment | added | Makoto | @ColeValleyGirl: That sounds like something you need someone to advocate for on your behalf since on the outside I don't know what that would even begin to look like, but someone that's closer to your community could very eloquently speak to. Also too yes, the graduate from Beta sudden rep limit jump is what did some pretty nasty damage to the moderation of Anime and Manga, as not that many of us are able to even moderate stuff effectively without copious diamond moderator support. So someone to advocate on our side about how these things can impact communities is still a plus. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 17:00 | comment | added | ColeValleyGirl | I'll also challenge the assumption that beta sites don't thrive. We have a lot of hit and run posters, but moving out of beta won't change that -- what we need is changes to the basic SE engine that make it easier to convert hit-and-run posters into people who value sticking around. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 16:59 | comment | added | ColeValleyGirl | @Mokoto I wouldn't pass one up if they appeared (and didn't divert funds from somewhere that would be useful). Yet I can't see what they'd actually do for us day-to-day. Our mods have advocated for leaving beta everywhere it's possible and are waiting for the results of the Q3 lifecycle review. I'm not sure what a hired advocate would add above those of us who have walked the walk since 2012. And as I've posted elsewhere graduating might be a poisoned chalice if the graduated rep limits were applied to us. Escaping Beta IMO is not an life-and-death issue as long as we're not closed down. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 16:47 | comment | added | Makoto | I dunno @ColeValleyGirl, I feel like a community who's been in "Beta" for the longest period of time would have plenty to talk about to an advocate. At least figuring out a way to get over the hump would be something. There's also some unique challenges that beta-driven sites face on a constant basis, since...well...if the site never escapes beta, what happens next? How does this community then begin to thrive? Only our community could heartily speak to that. But...you probably know this better than I do. Maybe you don't need an advocate. But I wouldn't pass one up, personally. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 16:23 | comment | added | ColeValleyGirl | @Mokoto, 'My' community wouldn't know what to do with a full time advocate, except sit them down in the corner and feed them biscuits :) We don't need a daily advocate -- most changes pass us by un-noticed. For large sites, I can see the value if mods don't have the time or access but in my experience the larger sites get heard anyway. Moreover, I cant see SO recruiting 180+ advocates, many of whom would spend their time twiddling their thumbs -- I'd rather see the money spent on growing the CM team. A part time advocate might be possible, but many of our smaller communities defy grouping. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 16:11 | comment | added | Makoto | @ColeValleyGirl: You gravely understate the scope of this request. Mods in my understanding are still go-betweens with the company and the community. This is a radical shift in thinking in that we would actually want someone who's full time job it is to be a part of a community to understand and advocate exactly for what's needed. Diamond mods aren't in the position to advocate to the company on our behalf since they're cut off from a lot of those kinds of internal conversations that could or do have an impact on communities until the company is just about ready to roll a change out. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 15:42 | comment | added | ColeValleyGirl | Without magic (and yes, we're assuming that in our 'wants') I can't see how that would work -- for the large sites, there might be enough work to justify a dedicated advocate But for the minnows? I suspect most minnow mods include it in their activities -- although the plethora of channels doesn't help. 'My' site doesn't need daily advocacy -- in fact it would be a PITA. We have 4 pro-tem moderators, 2 of whom are moderators on other sites -- we're pretty good at advocating for ourselves. I agree with Colleen V. -- it ought to be a formal part of the mod role. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 13:45 | comment | added | ColleenV | @JourneymanGeek Sure, but the ask here is for someone steeped in the community to advocate for them, not a "pass along the message" liaison. That was my main objection to the mod council. As capable and upstanding as all of those mods chosen by other mods are, I don't have any confidence they truly understand the needs of ELL. Someone can't effectively advocate for ELL and all of the 180 other sites, even if they could advocate at a more general level for the community. | |
| Jul 30, 2021 at 13:40 | comment | added | Journeyman Geek Mod | @ColleenV In a sense - it can be. If you went out to all, I donno, 180? Communities, I'm sure that a significant part of them would be happy to have someone listen and having a person you know can reach out to and will pass on the message to the right folks. While that was roughly a aspiration of the mod council, balancing another job and that sorta thing is pretty hard. I just see that as a core part of CMing as it should be. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 19:28 | comment | added | ColleenV | I don’t mean to be a pest. Like I said, if you don’t ask, you’ll never know the answer. I am just bad at resisting any opportunity to tell people my opinion ;) | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 19:11 | comment | added | Makoto | @ColleenV: I'm an American as well. Two other things: 1) This is a magic wand; don't ruin the magic! 2) I've seen the progress we've made with insufficient coverage or insufficient advocation or unpaid advocation. It creates this mess where the a relatively small community which wants or needs support from the overall company has to be extremely patient while the larger communities get activity. Even in the larger communities, there's always the sense of activity but not for their ultimate benefit. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 17:53 | comment | added | ColleenV | It just doesn’t seem like a full time job to me. Some sites go days without a post on their meta site. Some sites have no issues with the company they need advocates for. I agree that we could use a better way of communicating concerns to the company and getting feedback that we were heard and understood. I’m just not sure that a paid advocate is what we need. I’m an American though, so I probably have a cultural bias against that solution. I’m more inclined toward “the voice of the people” type stuff. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 17:45 | comment | added | Makoto | @cairdcoinheringaahing: No elections. Don't turn this into a popularity contest. Hiring someone who is committed to the community is better than popular vote. Have you noticed how many people you've probably never heard of turn up at Moderator election time and try to make a case for how they'll be an awesome mod? I'd really want to avoid that with this. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 17:44 | comment | added | Makoto | @ColleenV: In essence, their job would be to monitor and watch the Meta discussions and keep abreast of what's happening in the community. Each community does post discussions and talk about their own various issues there, and it'd be useful for someone to be in-context to what actually goes on or what challenges the communities are facing. Each community has their own set of challenges to address, and each advocate would need soak-in time to actually understand what it means. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 17:06 | comment | added | caird coinheringaahing | (cont) I personally don't think it's feasible to actually hire advocates for every community - that's a massive increase in employees, and some sites arguably don't need advocates. Something that could work would be similar to external contractors, where they aren't directly hired for SE, but are a part of the company and its workforce (and it wouldn't be a "primary" job, more something "done on the side") | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 17:03 | comment | added | caird coinheringaahing | One way I could see this being a thing: advocates are a couple of users elected by the sites to represent them (potentially only graduated sites?) similar to mods. These advocates then become more closely integrated with the CM side of SE wrt. communication. How this integration happens is a different matter, I can think of a variety of ways with varying effectiveness/feasibility. One key thing would be that advocates actually have a voice and influence in the company, rather than the current system of "sending in requests" (cont.) | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 17:02 | comment | added | ColleenV | And what exactly would they do all day? Not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 16:48 | comment | added | Makoto | @ColleenV: There are limits to the commitments of volunteer work that eventually demand compensation for spent time. I wouldn't see an issue with an advocate being paid by the company so long as it was explicitly clear that was their job role. Employers can set up parameters for job descriptions and if the role was explicitly only about being an advocate, it really wouldn't matter if they were paid by them. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 16:46 | comment | added | ColleenV | Well, you’ll never know the answer if you don’t ask. I find it doubtful the company would hire advocates for each site on top of the CM team. It seems unlikely there would be enough work to keep them busy or that they would provide enough value to the company as a single site advocate. Personally, I wouldn’t want my advocate being paid by the company. It seems like that would put their interests more in line with the company than the site. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 16:41 | comment | added | Makoto | @ColleenV: I'd really rather it be an organic hiring process. Someone that the company identifies and recognizes as someone who is capable of helping and leading the community, and is willing to work for the company as well. It's happened before; no reason why it couldn't happen again - or at least more often. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:29 | comment | added | ColleenV | @Makoto It might make sense to have the community specifically choose an advocate, because a lot of mods don’t take advantage of the channels mods have to advocate for their community. There is a “team” and a chat room where mods can talk directly to staff and to each other, and the mods who participate there do impact policy in a lot of instances. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:26 | comment | added | Kevin B | Mods aren't elected for their ability to represent us. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:25 | comment | added | Makoto | @ColleenV: I really don't think of the diamond mods as advocates of the community to the company. I think they're out there representing us and our best interests, but I don't have the impression that they talk to the company at the detailed level that I want. You see, they can say a lot of things and point to a lot of things, and the person that they're saying this to or pointing this out to isn't in context or has to absorb all of this and then run it back. Remember what I said about "running it back"? | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:23 | comment | added | Makoto | @KevinB: The point I'm making is that we - as in the community - can only speak so loud about certain issues. The real problem is that we are often ignored or sidelined in the conversations when Big Decisions are made that have a direct impact to a community, or they're made as proclamations from above. Yes, we can shout about that as much as we like. Does that mean we're being advocated for? Nope! | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:23 | comment | added | ColleenV | I’m not sure I understand why this role isn’t handled by the mod team. Maybe it could be a more formal aspect of what they do, but who better to represent a community’s interests than someone elected by it? | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:22 | comment | added | Makoto | @JourneymanGeek: In theory, yes. In practice, no. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:20 | comment | added | Kevin B | We already have advocates. It's the people willing to speak up when given the chance to. Reducing that... "role" down to single person would result in one person that only represents a minority rather than the broad range of people who participate. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:15 | comment | added | Journeyman Geek Mod | In theory that should be the CMs - least on the company's end, unless you mean a specific 'new' role. Even then - that's a lot of communities with different needs, and even on our end, there's very few folks with super wide knowledge and contacts to be able to do that imo. | |
| Jul 29, 2021 at 15:08 | history | answered | Makoto | CC BY-SA 4.0 |