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I think the current system doesn't make sense:

TL;DR - Vote-to-close as off-topic should not offer a target site. There should be a separate vote-to-move-to-different-stackexchange-site category.

Why should this question be closed?

  • exact duplicate (OK)
  • off topic (misleading)
  • not constructive (OK)
  • not a real question (OK)
  • too localized (OK)

When I voted a question as off topic, my take was that this is a halfway decent question for the target site. (Otherwise why would I specify a target site I know and care about.) My intent was for the question to be moved to the target site and live on there.

Instead, my vote was hijacked (but now moved to Programmers anyway) to close the question, meaning it was to be left to rot.

All other 4 close reasons express the intent that this question "is not useful".

Off-Topic in conjunction with a target site means for me: This question is useful somewhere else on the stackexchange network.

Note: I consider Stackoverflow and Programmers a very special pair. (not sure what the general take on this is). I would never (and will not again, until this is changed) vote-to-close a (good) question that was asked on SO and I consider a better fit for Programmers. Why? Because I'd rather have a legitimate ("open ended") question active and answered on SO, that have it closed on SO. The best thing would be for it to be moved to Programmers, but currently the voting system does not let me express that intent! (And therefore the title of this topic "... off topic should be a separate category" still seems appropriate.)

I notice there is : Distinguish votes to close by reason that, while not asking for distinguishing the overall close vote to actually close the question, asks for clearly labeling who voted what. Even if you disagree with me here, consider checking out that question and voting there.

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  • What about questions that are just plain off-topic everywhere on SE? (Say shopping recommendations) That's a non-broken close as off-topic, isn't it?
    – Mat
    Nov 23, 2011 at 11:50
  • I like the linked question and voted to re-open. (It's obviously different from the linked question. Maybe Software Engineering is a better place for it -- but I don't think Stack Overflow is the wrong place for it.) For this feature request: sometimes a very well asked question is off topic and yet still has no useful home on the stackexchange network. Off topic -> offtopic is good for that. (Also, only the community moderators have a useful "offtopic" close tool -- the rest of us have to make-do with a pitiful tiny portion of The Stack's fragments and flagging for the grownups to solve it for us.)
    – sarnold
    Nov 23, 2011 at 11:54
  • I dunno, I think this is a good request. +1.
    – user1228
    Nov 23, 2011 at 15:45
  • Re: Your edit, The other question does not give you anything like what you describe. The other question simply deals with how the names are displayed, and whether or not all reasons that were chosen should be displayed along with the names of the people that chose them. You're asking for the voting system to be changed fundamentally. That's why this question gets my -1.
    – Adam Robinson
    Nov 24, 2011 at 5:33

2 Answers 2

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When I vote a question as off topic, my take is that this is a halfway decent question for the target site.

No. That means the question is offtopic for this site, period. As a bonus, it maybe on-topic elsewhere.

Instead, my vote is hijacked to close the question, meaning it will be left to rot.

Why? The /review shows list of questions that have been voted to close - offtopic or otherwise. 10k+ tools shows list of questions that have been voted to close - offtopic or otherwise. Ditto for Mod view.

Off-Topic just means: This question is useful somewhere else on the stackexchange network.

No, as mentioned - off-topic means it's not suitable for this site. There are questions which aren't suitable for any Stack Exchange site.

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  • see my edit update. Either we remove the option to specify a better fit completely or we should make this a separate thing. IMHO.
    – Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:07
  • That means the question is offtopic for this site, period. As a bonus, it maybe on-topic elsewhere. -- Oh, and I strongly disagree with this. If I get offered an option to say it belongs elsewhere, then ignoring my choice is not a thing I consider "period". I consider it stupid.
    – Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:11
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    @Martin - but that's what it means. Migration to another site is not a right but a privilege.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:12
  • "is not a right but a privilege" what is that supposed to mean? If the UI offers it, then I'll use it. If it doesn't offer it, then I'll don't.
    – Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:16
  • @Martin - you voting to migrate it means it is offtopic so should be closed on this site. Otherwise why would you migrate it. If others agree it should be moved it will be moved - which means closed on this site and open on the other site.
    – Rory Alsop
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:53
  • @Martin: Sathya is completely correct. The meaning of the voting system is just as he says: that the question is, at a basic level, off-topic for SO. There just happen to be additional options that say "but it's on-topic for another site". It's not up to you (or me) to determine what the meaning behind the vote is, because it's clear from the language and from the behavior. You can interpret it to mean something else, but that doesn't mean that it's broken when it doesn't mean that in reality.
    – Adam Robinson
    Nov 24, 2011 at 5:36
  • @Adam (and others) - I will just note here that I attribute my statements to my subjectivity ("when I vote...", "my take...", clearly labeled so. I stated a feature request. If you do not agree, fine. -- You and the other however act as if the rules are set in stone, and I should repent and see my folly. Well, I will not. I think the UI as it stands is misleading and I will continue to think so. (And you are correct wrt. to the other question, I will edit accordingly.)
    – Martin
    Nov 24, 2011 at 6:17
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For me it makes perfect sense. The vote to close as offtopic means it is not on-topic where it currently is. No more, no less.

The fact it then offers the most common sites where questions get migrated is a handy plus, which can help keep questions alive somewhere else if applicable.

If others agree with you on a valid move-to site, then it will get migrated. If they disagree then it won't. Consensus is what determines the move.

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  • "The vote to close as offtopic means it is not on-topic where it currently is. No more, no less." As I said. I think that the UI says otherwise. Iff the UI offers the option to specify a better site, that this is something different. IMHO.
    – Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:17
  • The UI does offer that option. Have added a final sentence to directly respond to your 'hijack' point.
    – Rory Alsop
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:22
  • Yes, I meant to say: The UI does offer the option to propose a better site. Therefore, it is not "no more, no less". It is "more".
    – Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:24
  • Sure. But I see that as an addition - after you have made the decision to close as offtopic it offers a lifeline if the question may be appropriate elsewhere.
    – Rory Alsop
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:25
  • See my reasoning in the question: If I take the time to propose a move of an SO question to Programmers, the closing it is certainly not what I want. Because if I wanted it to be closed, I wouldn't vote to move it to programmers. I guess we can disagree here :-) And me, I will not cast any close votes any longer when I think the question would be a better fit elsewhere until this is "fixed", because currently the system will interpret it on par with all the other close votes.
    – Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:29
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    @Martin It takes 4 people to vote to migrate before a question is moved. What any one voter wants can't override that.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Nov 23, 2011 at 12:44
  • @ChrisF - Of course there need to be 4 votes! But if 3 of those votes are for "exact duplicate", then my "migrate" vote will be misinterpreted as close-as-duplicate. That's what I do not like.
    – Martin
    Nov 23, 2011 at 13:13
  • In that case if there already "exact duplicate" votes simply don't vote. You can't do anything if you're the first to vote though.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Nov 23, 2011 at 13:17

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