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Careers will soon be merged into Stack Overflow.

Only two sites are concerned by this change, because there’s currently only two kind of jobs on Careers: developers and system administrators.

Situation:

Because careers.stackoverflow.com isn't careers.stackexchange.com (and uses some of the Stack Overflow design) most jobs advertised on Careers (which will become Stack Overflow) target developers.

Of course this issue predates the current change but it will enhance targeting for developers at the expense of sysadmins, thus making things far worse because there would be no longer separate site with a separate design and separate accounts (so targeting fewer people).
Going to Stack Overflow for finding non developers Jobs would be like the situation of this famous sketch.

Result of the change:

I understand you will keep encouraging posting sysadmin jobs on Stack Overflow instead of Careers. But such change will definitely put a strong STOP to the idea of advertising non developers jobs for employers.

This also means Server Fault users would need to create a Stack Overflow account even if they do nothing related to questions/answers on Stack Overflow. Those who have a Careers profile, but not a Stack Overflow account will also probably get a Stack Overflow account.

So please don’t move what remains of this feature !

Update:

The real integration path you’re describing would have been to create new jobs sites first (at least for Server Fault) and only move Careers to Stack Overflow after.

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    I'm not sure what the issue is. Nothing is changing as to the content or usage. All we're doing is shuffling Careers from it's own site to the Jobs tab. Is it the fact that it won't be on Server Fault the issue? – Juice Dec 16 '15 at 22:08
  • Regarding sorting... This seems to work pretty well. – Shog9 Dec 16 '15 at 22:11
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    @Juice : yes it is. Sure, it will end the idea of putting sysadmin jobs for companies that don’t hire developers. – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 22:12
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    @Shog9 : We're still a long, long way away from that, but I'd hope this Stack Overflow integration is the first step along that road.. I would say a road to narrow the scope in practice. If it was really about deserving a wilder audience, you would made careers more detached from serverfault in favor of the whole network. – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 22:28
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    I wrote an answer to expand on that thought a bit, @user2284570. The "separate site" idea kinda worked against us; it just made it equally difficult to access the site from anywhere. Also, let's just leave this discussion here; SF isn't the only site that's affected by this, so it's worth discussing it once for everyone. – Shog9 Dec 16 '15 at 22:31
  • @Shog9 : The "separate site" idea kinda worked against us mainly because it was linked to stackoverflow.com. – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 22:35
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    No, mainly because it was actually a separate site. We could have an integrated service specific to SO, SF, SU, Math, and they'd all be less annoying than having to create yet another profile on yet another site. – Shog9 Dec 16 '15 at 22:41
  • related – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 23:52
  • @Shog9 : as someone recently noticed. – user2284570 Dec 17 '15 at 0:52
  • Yeah... That crap's going away too. No more perpetual beta. – Shog9 Dec 17 '15 at 0:54
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    @user2284570 That screenshot is crazy old. We rebranded from Careers 2.0 months ago. – Juice Dec 17 '15 at 15:24
  • I've started a discussion on MSO, because it seems MSO is now the official place to discuss Careers/Jobs issues. – Massimo Dec 27 '15 at 14:27
  • @Massimo yes, with a more biased dev point of vue. – user2284570 Dec 27 '15 at 20:20
  • @user2284570 That's exactly why I asked the question there, to bring a syadmin POV into the discussion; but the fact remains, discussions about Careers/Jobs are being moved to MSO, so that's the place to talk about it now. – Massimo Dec 27 '15 at 20:28
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    No need in useless edits to bump. The bounty is really enough. – Shadow The Princess Wizard Jan 3 '16 at 15:29
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Don't read too much into the current changes. Right now, careers.serverfault.com simply redirects to careers.stackoverflow.com - and yet, we both encourage employers to post their sysadmin jobs and advertise the service on Server Fault.

The project currently underway simply moves that site from a separate domain with separate profiles and additional login requirements to one that is more fully integrated with the normal Q&A site. That should actually make it a little bit easier for people on other Q&A sites to log in and create CVs as well. So this doesn't actually make anything worse for the good folk on Server Fault.

That said, it could be a lot better for them than it currently is. As you note, targeting is... not awesome. The pickings are pretty slim, which doesn't help - getting more employers aware that this service exists would go a long way toward fixing both problems.

FWIW, I don't know what the long-term plans are for other sites, but I certainly hope we wouldn't deny jobs for professionals who are active on Stack Exchange just for the sake of a different URL scheme; this is all about serving MORE people, not fewer! Once upon a time, the dream was that every site would have an associated section for jobs, a place where everyone from chefs to physicists could turn their knowledge into a live portfolio... We're still a long, long way away from that, but I'd like to believe that better integration with Stack Overflow is the first step along that road.

locked by Tim Post Apr 1 '16 at 6:11

This post has been locked while disputes about its content are being resolved. You may discuss this on meta if you have concerns.

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  • Ok sum up : there’s a problem with the separate site idea. So go to solve it only for so users (most of jobs which are advertised). In the meantime let’s require other users of the network to create a so account. – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 22:40
  • As opposed to a careers.so account, yes. Like I said, it ain't ideal - but it's no worse than what we have now and could potentially be a lot better on down the road. – Shog9 Dec 16 '15 at 22:42
  • Why did you cross-post? – Shog9 Dec 16 '15 at 23:01
  • Because sysadmins are the only peoples which have a carrers profile outside developers. – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 23:03
  • Not necessarily true; regardless, other sites have expressed interest in having their own Careers site in the past, and I think it's worth including everyone in this discussion. – Shog9 Dec 16 '15 at 23:09
  • What about the peoples who have a careers profile but not a stackoverflow account ? Will they get a stackoverflow account ? – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 23:17
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    I believe so, but I'm not totally up to date on those plans. The push over the past year has been to integrate per-site profiles more fully into a network-wide account that you only have to log into once; not quite sure how they've managed to make this work for CVs just yet; I suspect this is still subject to change as we move forward. – Shog9 Dec 16 '15 at 23:23
  • I think you should update tags. – user2284570 Dec 16 '15 at 23:56
  • @user2284570 As Shog said, this is a possibility, but right now we have no plans to bring the jobs tab to Server Fault or brand that section as anything but Stack Overflow Careers. But you never know what we'll decide in the future. – Juice Dec 17 '15 at 17:12
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    @Juice : yes I know it. It will implicitly definitely end ServerFault jobs. Because not planned is often synonym of “won’t do in the next decades”. – user2284570 Dec 18 '15 at 11:14
  • I've started a discussion on MSO, because it seems MSO is now the official place to discuss Careers/Jobs issues. – Massimo Dec 27 '15 at 14:26
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    Lifehacks Careers will now be my go-to joke for 2016. – Tim Stone Dec 27 '15 at 18:55
  • @TimStone : the current concern is about the ending in practice of sysadmin jobs, not the future opening to other categories. – user2284570 Dec 29 '15 at 2:41
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    "careers.serverfault.com simply redirects to careers.stackoverflow.com" Remember the mess of Meta SO being used for the whole SE network?? *Shudders* – Robotnik Jan 3 '16 at 14:52
  • @Robotnik : Probably mso-mse-split was a bad idea. – user2284570 Jan 6 '16 at 14:31
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+50

Most of this is a cross-post of my answer from the MSO thread, since I'm not sure if the OP read the MSO post...spoiler alert, though: it's not much different from what Shog said.


The job board will continue to have both programming and sys admin jobs. What's changing is that the job-seeker experience of the job board will not live on a separate site requiring an entirely different account; it will live on Stack Overflow instead. (Employers will continue to use careers.stackoverflow.com to post job listings, manage applications, send messages, etc.) We've recently done a lot of work to simplify and streamline creating and logging into multiple Stack Exchange sites. While this may not be ideal for Server Fault users who don't use Stack Overflow today, it should be a great deal less painful to use a Stack Overflow account for jobs-related activities than it has been to create and maintain your CV on a totally separate Careers account.

There has never been a dedicated job board for sys admins; careers.serverfault.com simply redirects to careers.stackoverflow.com. We're not introducing a sys-admin-only job board, but we're not taking anything away that currently exists, either.

We can definitely do more to make the experience better for Server Fault users, but right now, we don't have plans to add a Jobs tab to sites other than Stack Overflow. There's still a lot of work to be done behind the scenes to complete this integration, and it makes sense to iron it all out on one site first. I can't say that we'll definitely add a Jobs tab to other sites at any point, but I can tell you that we're definitely not getting rid of sys admin jobs as part of our job board offering. Moving the job board to Stack Overflow should only change things for the better: closer integration between Q&A and job-related activities will benefit job seekers by making it easier for Q&A users to log in and create CVs, and the extra exposure from living on Stack Overflow should help even more employers know that we can help them hire technical staff, including sys admins.

We aren't changing the way targeting works, either. If an employer tells us their job listing is for a sys admin, it gets advertised on Server Fault. If they don't, we assume it's a developer job and advertise it on Stack Overflow. That's the way it's always worked, and that's the way it will continue to operate. Sys admin jobs are a small part of the jobs that are on our job board, and yes, that sucks. However, I don't expect sys admin jobs to ever be at parity with developer jobs; they just aren't as numerous.

In summary...

Sys admin jobs are still entirely appropriate and encouraged on our job board, and we will continue to advertise sys admin jobs on Server Fault.

The only thing that's changing is that the job board will live on Stack Overflow rather than an entirely separate site.

  • I understand that you are still encouraging employers to post sysadmins jobs. I'm not saying you will forbid it. But the change will simply discourage them from doing so. I will never think to buy bread at a shop without a bakery label. This is why I wrotein practice by making targetting far worst than it is now. And this feature request is to prevent the move, or at least, do a split not really discussing about it. – user2284570 Jan 6 '16 at 18:36
  • @user2284570 What about the change makes you think that employers will be discouraged from posting sys admin jobs? For them, nothing's really changing. – Laura Jan 6 '16 at 18:41
  • By clearly changing the targetting for what they will see first (the job tab). – user2284570 Jan 6 '16 at 18:44
  • I don't really understand what you mean by "changing the targeting for what they will see first" @user2284570 - we aren't changing anything about the way employers choose targeting. – Laura Jan 6 '16 at 18:54
  • I’m talking about the targeting of the job board. Ok, we might not share the same concern about the origin of the problem. As I explained in my question, I think it is because careers.stackoverflow.com isn't careers.stackexchange.com (and use some of stackoverflow design) that most jobs advertised on careers (which will become stackoverflow) target developpers. – user2284570 Jan 6 '16 at 19:30
  • @user2284570 Okay, I think I understand where you're coming from better now, but it seems like what you're actually concerned with is that Server Fault doesn't have its own totally separate jobs site. That's an issue that predates the current integration plans, and as I said in my answer, moving the job board to SO really isn't making anything worse (though it's not making it better either) for sys admins / sys admin jobs. – Laura Jan 6 '16 at 20:32
  • We have no plans to build a separate job board for Server Fault in the near future. Maybe eventually, but not any time soon. – Laura Jan 6 '16 at 20:34
  • I'm not that concerned by the fact ServerFault don't have it's own site. I would support the idea of a single job board for the whole network. I'm concerned by the fact it is being served under a site for different topic. Hence the comparison of trying to sell bread at a miler only shop. If the shop was labelled for selling bread and floor, their would be no problem. – user2284570 Jan 6 '16 at 20:43
  • I think the situation of a separate site with separate accounts os ꜱᴏ linked to Stack Overflow can be an acceptable status quo (did you investigated using the global stack exchange account directly ?). The point is the current change will enhance targeting for developers at the expense of sysadmins (making things worst because there would be no longer separate site with separate design, but we disagree on that point). – user2284570 Jan 6 '16 at 21:00
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I agree. We should not merge these 2 sites. However, it takes about 2 seconds to create a new account, so that's really not a valid concern.

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    I don't really like opening a miller account for buying bread. – user2284570 Dec 27 '15 at 20:19
  • In fact It’s possible to find non developer jobs the same way gasoline is available here. – user2284570 Apr 1 '16 at 0:19

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