23

Please repeat a ping only once when a message is edited

If a message containing a ping is edited, only re-ping the user after the edit time limit has expired.

Give me a ping, Vasili. One ping only, please.

Rationale

If I get pinged in chat, the ping is repeated every time the comment is edited. If a user needs to edit and re-edit their message to me, this can get annoying because of the repeated ping sound. (Actually, it's not really a ping, more like a *BONK*).

I can understand that a user needs to be re-pinged if a message is edited. But to avoid repeatedly pinging a user in rapid succession, limit it to a single ping once the regular edit time limit has expired. That way, I get re-pinged, but only once.

Similar Request

A similar request has been made before:

Don't repeat the ping when editing chat messages

However, that didn't propose a solution and has been declined, mainly because it would create the need to decide if an edit was minor or major.

My proposal doesn't need that decision; if a message is edited, the ping is repeated — once.


Old version:

Chat notification is repeated for every edit: drives me bonkers

The chat notification, especially the *BONK*, is repeated when a message is edited. Repeatedly.

This can get really annoying. I propose the *BONK* is only repeated after the editing time limit has expired. That way, even if multiple edits are made, only a single *BONK* will be emitted.

The *BONK* is the most annoying part of the repeated notification, but this bug / feature request is about the entire notification. Even when muted, the repeated notification can be annoying.

  • 2
    Also note that mods can edit indefinitely. I might come across an old chat message of mine with a glaring typo and, being the pedant that I am, will be compelled to fix it. Why should that trigger an annoying *BONK*? – terdon Jan 29 '16 at 22:46
  • @terdon One would sincerely hope that chat messages over a certain age would not trigger the noise... say, messages over a day old... Do we know that all edits, even of very old messages trigger notifications? – Catija Jan 29 '16 at 22:50
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    @Catija one would. I just did a little test (with the help of @Fabby) and editing a message of ~2 year ago didn't result in a ping but one of a few minutes ago (but still beyond the non-mod editing time limit) did. – terdon Jan 29 '16 at 22:59
  • This is not a bug. This feature exists so that the pinged user will be aware an edit was made. Feel free to ask for a change, but -1 for reporting an existing feature as a bug just because you don't like it – ShaWiz Jan 30 '16 at 8:20
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    That said, if you find the ping noise so annoying, just mute the tab, it's that easy – ShaWiz Jan 30 '16 at 8:23
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    @ShadowWizard but I do want to get pinged the first time, just not every time someone fixed a typo. – SQB Jan 30 '16 at 8:50
  • @SQB fair enough, but this is still a pure feature request. If I'd think the font used by SE is ugly, I won't submit this as a bug report. – ShaWiz Jan 30 '16 at 11:31
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    Possible duplicate of Don't repeat the ping when editing chat messages (or the status-bydesign bug version) – Tim Stone Jan 30 '16 at 18:31
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    @TimStone My request seeks to solve the same problem, but wants to do so by different means. I've edited it to (hopefully) reflect this. – SQB Jan 30 '16 at 20:24
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    @Tim also, the other one is already marked as declined. This is one of the cases where I believe it's valid to ask the team to re-consider with a new request. (If the other request wouldn't have the status tag, I wouldn't hesitate to mark as duplicate) – ShaWiz Jan 30 '16 at 20:30
  • @ShadowWizard And the reason for declining was that they didn't want to have to separate minor from major edits. My proposal doesn't need that decision to be made. – SQB Jan 30 '16 at 20:34
  • For the record, I'm one of the two downvoters here, and the few upvoters of Jon's answer. I do like the fact I'm pinged upon edit, it makes it easier to know there is something different I should look at. – ShaWiz Jan 30 '16 at 20:38
  • @ShadowWizard, I agree with that -- just not every time. Come to chat and I'll show you what I mean :) – SQB Jan 30 '16 at 20:57
12

I think this is behavior carried over from the rest of the site. Most of the SE network is static, or relatively so. It is designed to be read days, even years after it was written as well as seconds. Chat, on the other hand, is usually live. Not always, but at the very least far more often.

Therefore, I don't need to be pinged if you've changed something you wrote to me. I can see it myself. Or, if it is so important, you can choose to ping me manually.

More importantly, unlike most other types of posts we have here, chat is faster. It is something you type more or less as fast as you can do so. Consequently, the number of typos in chat messages are probably several orders of magnitude above what you get in questions or answers. This, in turn, leads to multiple edits, each of which causes a ping. This is extremely annoying.

For example, I often hang out in the English Language & Usage chat room. A place of wordsmiths, grammarians, linguists and lexidigitators of all stripes. In the land of the language geeks, having a typo stare you in the eye is extremely bothersome. Now, I happen to type on a rather crappy keyboard and, especially when typing fast, make frequent typos. I often don't notice until I've posted and end up editing my message once, twice or even more times. The poor sap I pinged will get repetitive notifications of something that rarely, if ever, changed the original meaning of my message and which rarely, if ever, deserves to be pointed out.

Is it really worth getting repetitive ping each time we go from

Thats hard.

through

Tha'ts hard.

to

That's hard, damn this keyboard!

How often does the edit really change the meaning? In my experience, the vast majority of edits are minor and don't really change the meaning of what was written. As I said above, if I feel that the change was so important, I'll let you know. I pinged you the first time so, presumably, I am quite capable of pinging you again:

@chatbuddy Oy, see the edit!

Now, in an ideal world, there'd be no ping at all for this sort of thing. I honestly can't think of a single time where that ping was more helpful than annoying. Not a one. At the very least let's make it so a ping isn't issued for minor edits or for edits that are made immediately after a chat message was posted.

  • 2
    It's even more fun to edit deleted messages. Great feature. or bug? The world wonders. – enderland Jan 30 '16 at 1:06
  • Take home message - get a better keyboard, perhaps. :-) – Faheem Mitha Jan 30 '16 at 2:00
-3

I recently triggered a notification on chat thusly:

@ryan 4 months is easier than when they are 4 years old. If that

Whose idea was it to put quotation marks just off the home row in favour of the colons? Arg. Okay. Let's edit this thing:

@ryan 4 months is easier than when they are 4 years old. If that's any consolation.

So to put myself in Ryan's shoes, if the edit doesn't trigger a ping, how will he ever know I completed the thought? (I mean, obviously he's going to go back and read all my chat messages regularly, but what about an edit from a less brilliant chatter than yours truly?) In a busy chat room, there might be a dozen new messages by the time I figure out where the single quote key actually sits.

So the notification can be handy to let people know the occasional times a message directed at them had a typo that got fixed. (Another common scenario is when a chatter forgets to type "not" and thereby says exactly the opposite of what they mean. Fixing that is often important for effective communication.)

If you are getting repeated notifications from edits, I suspect the problem has more to do with other people abusing edits than with the design of notifications. You might start by asking the person pinging you to not do that any more.

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    Is there any possibility that we would be given the chance to pick what the noise was? I find some rooms (depending on server) have less annoying noises. I particularly enjoy the MSE chat noise. – Catija Jan 29 '16 at 20:24
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    But how about my compromise? Once pinged on first mention, once again after the edit time limit (if the comment has been edited, of course). – SQB Jan 29 '16 at 20:26
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    When that particular exchange took place, one of two things happened: i) Ryan was there, watching the chat and saw your edit or ii) He missed both the edit and the correction. Yes, it is conceivable that he saw the original and then ran away and never saw the edit again but that's far less likely since he was involved in a discussion at the time. Plus, was that change really important enough to warrant multiple pings? Perhaps you could make the message flash or blink or something else. Just not that annoying ping! – terdon Jan 29 '16 at 22:43
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    This is like suggesting that we ask people to stop sending spam email rather than asking our email provider to install a spam filter. – Lightness Races in Orbit Jan 30 '16 at 1:29
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit: Well, not entirely. If there really are people spamming with edit notifications (and they just won't stop) then you should flag a moderator. Unlike email (which is on an open network), we can prevent bad actors from participating. I just don't see any evidence that this is a problem outside of one chat room for a few minutes this afternoon. On the whole, people seem respectful with their pings. – Jon Ericson Jan 30 '16 at 1:34
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    @Jon: There's a galaxy-sized chasm between annoyance and abuse. This question is about the former. I don't think anyone's claiming that this is a big problem that's threatening the fabric of SE society; it's a feature request whose implementation would incrementally improve our lives during the normal course of SE participation. Maybe it's not worthy of a high priority but I don't think it warrants summary dismissal just because nobody's being cheated out of rep or forced to partake in a global crime ring. Seems like a pretty reasonable request and, in the UX world, not at all a strange one. – Lightness Races in Orbit Jan 30 '16 at 1:41
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    I'm still wondering what the value added for a audible notification on a second time on a message that I already got an audible on. Either I noticed it, or I didn't. I don't need it again. What additional value did Ryan get from having his computer go "beep" twice within 10 seconds? If the first one didn't get his attention are you going 'beep' again so that the second one will? – user213963 Jan 30 '16 at 1:44
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit: Sooo... Why did you bring up spam? I can see how this behavior could be annoying. My answer suggests a reason it might be helpful sometimes. You gotta weigh the positive with the negative for any feature request. – Jon Ericson Jan 30 '16 at 1:45
  • @JonEricson: My story about spam was an analogy. Spam wasn't the key point. – Lightness Races in Orbit Jan 30 '16 at 1:47
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit: Yes. A weak one. As I pointed out, we can deal with abuse if it has occurred. – Jon Ericson Jan 30 '16 at 1:49
  • @JonEricson: I was pretty happy with it tbh. – Lightness Races in Orbit Jan 30 '16 at 1:49
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    @JonEricson Yes, this is most certainly an issue chat-site wide. The particular event that triggered this question was just that: a trigger. There was nothing egregious about it, nobody did anything wrong, it just reminded some of us of a particular annoyance. This is not a question of abuse. Sure, abuse can be dealt with and isn't really a problem in my experience either. This about a pretty standard annoyance. Especially when chatting with people whose English is not their best language and who repeatedly edit to get their chat message into shape. I just don't need a ping per edit. – terdon Jan 30 '16 at 12:10
  • For what it's worth, I agree - this feature should stay and it's useful. – ShaWiz Jan 30 '16 at 13:13
  • One of my most frequent edits that I do several times a day is some sentence b to some sentence. When typing two spaces on the iPhone to get the ., I sometimes hit 'space b' and that isn't want I want at all. But I've already hit send. beep beep. – user213963 Feb 1 '16 at 21:12

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