Inclusion project - Emphasize Stack Exchange's culture of inclusion

Question

One of the more common defenses I've seen for rude/discriminating behavior is justifying it with multiculturalism.

I know that sounds odd on its face, so let me explain...

Users seem to be justifying behaving badly by claiming that it's the norm in their neck of the woods. Sometimes that's even accurate, but I suspect, more often than not, it's just a lame excuse.

Admittedly, some places seem to be ok with some kinds of discrimination, it's a sad fact of the world. Some places have made a little more progress, and while that's great, they're still fighting to make it a little better... Stack Exchange seems to have become one of the latter places.

I'd prefer that Stack Exchange communities put their own culture first. As in:

We don't care where you come from, you still have to treat people like people here.

That seems to be a corner stone of the Be Nice policy, at least as far as my reading of it. Although this can apparently be interpreted more than one way.

To flatly come out and say:

It's not ok to treat X that way.

Can be considered rude in some cultures, if you're going by the standard set by a given culture. How they feel about how X should be treated is culturally ingrained, often backed by eons of tradition, religion, and so on. This obviously creates a big stumbling block...

What I would like to suggest is plainly saying that Stack Exchange is a community with its own culture, and the norms and rules of our culture come first.

We don't want to offend users from any part of the world, from any religion, or culture, but when it comes to some things... Well... That's just how we do it here. This is what our community feels is right.

Thoughts?

Answer 1

Hmmm...

I'd prefer that Stack Exchange communities put their own culture first.

We already do this. In fact, it's probably the root of an awful lot of the complaints that we get, since the shared Stack Exchange culture is significantly different from the predominate cultural norms of the 'Net, and even moreso when you take certain Eastern cultural norms into account.

And... Even though we kinda know that an awful lot of folks showing up here suffer from culture shock, we're often not that great at acclimating them to it. Seasoned member unutbu wrote about this recently over on MSO:

My early confusion came from a conflict in cultures perhaps not dissimilar to they one some new-flowers face when asking questions to us overflowers. But I believe we tend to learn to adapt to the culture that we are in. So let's try to welcome / acculturate new-flowers by trying to be respectful and patient while showing by example how people are expected to behave on Stack Overflow.

Truth is, we're often very brusque about how we introduce these norms to new members of these sites; we may even betray our frustration with seeing so many of them by going out of our way to chastise others for their transgressions.

Should we abandon our culture then? Certainly not! Doing so hardly solves the problem of culture-clash, nor is it in any way practical to even attempt it. But we would do well to remember the reasons behind our little rituals, so that we can better explain them to others - and reminding ourselves that the fixtures which we take for granted can look very strange and confusing until folks become accustom to them.

We also need to remember that Stack Exchange has grown considerably over its life - not just in size, but in breadth of both topic and diversity of culture. Participating on TeX is not the same as participating on Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair and neither are anything like participating on Worldbuilding; while all these sites share many common attributes, their individual cultures also have much that is unique or at least uncommon - cultural exports work by persuasion, not edict. This isn't done in the name of "multiculturalism", but of practical necessity: what works for one topic or group may destroy another; if we're to host these diverse topics on our platform, then the folks involved must be free to adapt to what allows that to happen effectively.

Over the years, I've had to explain again and again to people whose culture dictates that they must upvote their superiors' posts that such behavior is forbidden here; numerous others have faced this same task. It would certainly be less work to just abandon our own goals and expectations in the face of such pressure - but the cost of doing so is the slow destruction of much of what we've built here.

So we patiently provide the same guidance again and again, day after day, year after year, to each new member who makes the same mistake. And they learn, and they adapt, and we are all better for it.

Answer 2

One of the more common defenses I've seen for rude/descriminating behavior is justifying it with multiculturalism.

I think there are some issues on Stack Exchange as regards to the "be nice" policy. And I'm not a fan of multiculturism at all - I think it's used to excuse a lot of bad things. So I'm listening.

I know that sounds odd on its face, so let me explain. Users seem to be justifying behaving badly by claiming that it's the norm in their neck of the woods. Sometimes that's even accurate, but I suspect, more often than not, it's just a lame excuse.

I've seen plenty of users being unpleasant. And not just new users, or users from distant lands with different cultures - I'm in the UK by the way. But I've never seen multiculturalism used as an excuse for unpleasantness on Stack Exchange. Maybe I've led a sheltered life.

Admittedly, some places seem to be ok with some kinds of discrimination, it's a sad fact of the world. Some places have made a little more progress, and while that's great, they're still fighting to make it a little better... Stack Exchange seems to have become one of the latter places.

A lot of places are OK with some kind of discrimination. Only they sweep it under the rug or call it "affirmative action" or somesuch. But I haven't noticed much in the way of discrimination on Stack Exchange. I've noticed that some longer term users aren't always nice to new users, but I don't think that's discrimination per se.

I'd prefer that Stack Exchange communities put their own culture first. As in: We don't care where you come from, you still have to treat people like people here.

I agree with that. And I would venture to say that that's the intent. Perhaps the real issue here is Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?. If people aren't being nice, then surely the moderators need to do something about it? And if they don't, then somebody needs to have a chat with them?

That seems to be a cornerstone of the be nice policy, at least as far as my reading of it. Although this can apparently be interpreted more than one way. To flatly come out and say It's not ok to treat X that way can be considered rude in some cultures, if you're going by the standard set by a given culture. How they feel about how X should be treated is culturally ingrained, often backed by eons of tradition, religion, and so on. This obviously creates a big stumbling block...

There is the saying When in Rome. I agree with that. A lot of people do.

What I would like to suggest is plainly saying that Stack Exchange is a community with its own culture, and the norms and rules of our culture come first.

Who wouldn't agree with that? Provided that culture has that be nice ethic of course.

We don't want to offend users from any part of the world, from any religion, or culture, but when it comes to some things... Well... That's just how we do it here. This is what our community feels is right. Thoughts?

I share your sentiment. But the bottom line is that I haven't noticed that this is a problem on Stack Exchange. I guess what I'm saying is that for this one, we really do need some examples. I know that can be problematical, but I see no other option here.