Downvoting "too useful" answers to homework questions

Question

I gave a short, but helpful answer to a homework question here. Then a user down-voted with the reason "Perfect answer for a non-homework question. But it's a homework question, so -1."

I don't care about the rep, but was that necessary? Is it so bad if I choose to help someone with a question I know the answer to? Yes, it might let users continue to ask questions that lack detail, but isn't that a reason to down-vote the question (which in this and other cases got no down-votes)? Besides, it's not like I was giving him code (which even in that case down-voting is questionable in my eyes).

Answer 1

I don't care about the rep, but was that necessary?

Not necessary perhaps, but voting a legitimate/available way for j_random_hacker to express his or opinion: for example, it made you notice.

Is it so bad if I choose to help someone with a question I know the answer to?

The definition of downvote (which you see if you mouse-hover over the down-arrow) is "This answer is not useful."

The reason for homework is to learn/experience solving problems: therefore your answer can be seen as not being helpful/useful to the person who asked the question.

One of the answers in the FAQ about How to ask and answer homework questions? says,

"Try to provide explanation that will lead the asker in the correct direction. Genuine understanding is the real goal for students, but trying to provide that is seldom unappreciated for any question."

I think it's arguable (a matter of opinion) whether someone should downvote your answer; but whether or not they 'should', at least some people will: and many people do agree that there is such a thing as being too helpful especially when it's a homework question.

Instead of just providing the finished solution, could you have rephrased your answer so that the questioner could duplicate the train of thought that led you to your answer?

Yes, it might let users continue to ask questions that lack detail, but isn't that a reason to down-vote the question ...?

Apparently you understood the question: so it was sufficiently detailed. And it isn't wrong (subject to the various caveats mentioned in the FAQ) to ask questions about homework: questions shouldn't be downvoted only because they're homework-related (although in this example perhaps the question could be downvoted for the same reason that your answer was: i.e. because it was homework and not just about (one aspect of some) homework).

Again:

• It is okay to ask about homework
• Providing an answer that doesn't help a student learn is not in the student's own best interest.

Answer 2

As the villain in this episode :) let me try to explain myself:

I don't think I would go so far as to suggest that we have a responsibility to encourage students to do their own homework, but I strongly feel it is good to encourage this behaviour regardless, in whatever way possible. As marcog says, I could have simply left the comment without the -1. But the -1 is harder to ignore, and IMHO, still within the bounds of acceptable behaviour.

To the people who say: "Our job is to provide answers, full stop", I simply disagree. A person should always look at the context, I think. As a different example of the same principle, when a question clearly stems from a misunderstanding of how to best do something, I advocate thinking about the underlying problem and answering that, instead of helping the asker shoot himself in the foot.

I hope I haven't made an enemy of marcog, and I'll mention that he tends to provide high-quality answers to algorithms questions, many of which I've upvoted in the past. I doubt he has taken this personally, but I just want to make it clear that it isn't personal. Just an expression of my opinion on how homework questions should be handled.

Answer 3

Although it's up to the student to decide what to do with your answer, there are consequences to posting direct answers to homework problems on StackOverflow:

Thanks to all who helped Justin with his university assignment: your solutions are his solutions. Justin has been monitored by the course staff for some time now and will meet shortly with the Dean to discuss his future academic career.

Answer 4

I don't care about the rep, but was that necessary?

No. But the system is there so people can choose to downvote or upvote as desired.

It is not our place to determine what help a student should or should not receive, and I strongly discourage downvotes for answers to homework questions.

The student asked, we answer.

Some people believe that the best route is to force the student to think about the problem and solve it themselves. A few of these people will choose to penalize others when they don't follow their belief. It's sad that they choose to enforce their beliefs via downvoting, but that is exactly the mechanism given to the community to direct itself, so it's a valid choice.

Don't take it personally. As of now more people agree with you than agree with the person that thinks you shouldn't be so free and easy with information.

Yes, the student may in fact be giving themselves a worse education than if they broke the question up into pieces and asked questions that would lead them to the answer.

Is it our place to determine how to educate them, though? They are in charge of their learning.

If one doesn't want to provide an answer to a homework question and instead try to teach the student the principles that will lead them to the correct answer, one should post comments, unless the question specifically asks for answers that are basic principles.

The answer to a question, "What is the answer to the problem X?" should be the answer to the problem X.

tl;dr

The answer to your question is that people are free to vote according to how they perceive the answer as "useful" or not. Some will base their decision on whether a question is for homework or not, and whether they believe students should receive indirect answers to direct questions. It is entirely within their right to downvote according to their own model of what Stack Overflow should be.

Answer 5

The other side to the argument is that in legitimate cases the student probably won't appreciate just an uncommented code dump on a working solution. Not only will this not help his / her understanding of the original problem, it could also get them into trouble far more easily if you're seen to be asking questions and getting the answers back without understanding what's happening. If on the other hand a Google search by a teacher reveals someone asked for help to a homework question but didn't want a full solution (and just wanted nudges in the right direction) it'd be unlikely this would be seen as a bad thing on the student's behalf.

I'd say this was different in the corporate world because the whole point of education is intrinsicly understand what it is you're writing; you'll most likely never need to produce identical code ever again but it's the concepts that are important. Admittedly this is a useful attitude to take in industry as well, but sometimes there is a call for just getting things done.

Answer 6

Actually if it is for a coursework assignment rather than a homework then copying answers off StackOverflow.com, or any other site, even if the questions were posed by someone else, could be considered plagiarism, if the author does not give the credit due.

Universities give heavy penalties for plagiarism.

As stackoverflow.com is an openly available site, with result hits from google and other search engines, and that teachers can read as well as students, using this site to get answers and claiming them as your own will not only not necessarily gain the student the knowledge they need if they had learnt themselves, but they may also find it fails to gain them the marks too.

Any student who asks the question and does not actually understand the solution they are given here is likely to copy and paste it, character by character.

Answer 7

I think it's because the purpose of a programming exercise is for the student to figure it out. If the student simply hands in code copied from someone else, they've not (necessarily) learned anything, and they certainly have not demonstrated to the teacher that they were capable of solving the problem. I was top in my programming class - would it really have been be fair in your eyes for me to be in the middle because 1/2 the students copied exemplary work from professionals with years of experience?

That said, I taught myself programming at 11 years old by copying BASIC and Assembly code from magazines, then understanding it and making changes.

However, I have encountered a large percentage of programmers professionally who, honestly, cannot program themselves out of a cardboard box, and yet, somehow, they obtained a CS degree - what's up with that? I would suggest it's likely that most of them cheated on their programming assignments.

All that said... you answer was perfect for a homework question - I don't know what the downvoter was thinking.