Hot answers tagged

332

The "loop" is bad news. Here's why. No community engagement. On Meta, we get to voice a problem, users propose various solutions and weigh them against each other, maybe we get convinced that what we initially thought was a problem is in fact a desirable, or at least unpleasant-but-necessary feature. We work together as a community to make this platform we ...


250

The phrase "for reasons they don't understand" is offensive. We do understand why changes out of the blue bothered us, Sara. We listed those changes for you to read. The illegal relicensing, the horrific way you slandered a user to the media, the inappropriate animated advertisements, the abrupt Code Of Conduct changes that didn't take any user input. All of ...


180

Original Data Analysis In April 2019 there was an investigation performed that looked at the number of users who regularly post and vote on Meta Stack Overflow, and how answering on Stack Overflow predicted that participation. The results were that posting and voting on Meta is done by 200-300 users (on average), and that answering on Stack Overflow had a ...


179

For me the key takeaways boil down to: Long-time users can be surprised by things changing out of the blue for reasons they don’t understand, ... No mentioning of long-time users worry about quality and community spirit, aka working hand in hand, as promised in that previous blog article. A bit of that shows up later, but I had hoped to see it right ...


139

I find it disgusting that this survey asks about race, age, and gender, and offers no option for "prefer not to say." In other words, if you want to submit feedback to Stack Exchange, you MUST tell them your age, gender, and race, or you are not able to give feedback at all. Or, of course, you must lie about your race, age, and gender. Which may bias the ...


139

They're counting on us having nowhere else to go. I can't tell you how many times in the past couple of months I've heard the "stay and fight" mantra from disgruntled meta users, especially around Monica's situation. From Sara's fake apology (which is the lowest-rated question on meta) to moderator issues (the second-most hated question on meta) to ...


128

It isn't solving the actual problem The actual problem is that you always mess up and then provide us with a solution which we absolutely hate. You didn't fix the HNQ when sites told you that it's a positive feedback loop for clickbait junk, so the solution was to kick a site off when it blew up on Twitter. You weren't careful with making sure your links to ...


127

I've linked to this countless times over the past year, but clearly I need to do so again: Effective Apologies Include Six Elements – Association for Psychological Science – APS. The titular "six elements" are: Expression of regret Explanation of what went wrong Acknowledgment of responsibility Declaration of repentance Offer of ...


126

This is all wrong. It's on Meta Stack Overflow, which is meant for Stack Overflow only. It doesn't mention the rest of the network. And I can't even post an answer under that MSO thread without 5 rep on SO. This is the best way to tell me that if I don't use SO, I'm not important to you.


120

If The Loop is supposed to give any meaningful feedback to the Company, we are doomed. It is 5 minute survey about Stack Overflow (other communities... who cares... apparently SE does not) Besides, usual demographic (age, gender, years in programming) there are two free style edits: what do you like and what you don't like about SO. Seriously, how will ...


115

I have largely held my tongue over the past few months, but this blog post just makes it clear that you fundamentally do not get, or perhaps value, the community here. You write “the work we do would not be possible without the contributions of our incredible community” as though the community is taking “little actions” that help you do your job. You would ...


109

Some backchannel diplomacy isn't going to work here, even if it's well meaning. We need active dialogue that's open to the community. It lacks what I've said before and will say again: Without discussion, there can be no trust. There needs to be discussion in the open, for everyone to see and partake in.


96

From the post: I heard feedback from a significant number of Stack Overflow employees that they avoided [posting] on Meta because of the reaction it garnered. Though this was not felt by all staff who interacted on Meta, and it affected different people to varying degrees, many felt discouraged or experienced full on anxiety at the thought of making a ...


94

That's not why I elected those moderators I don't like you giving moderators the updates and asking only the moderators for feedback. I trust my site's moderators with handling flags and keeping discussions and the average undeleted posts' quality up to date. I did not elect them for their role in analyzing and suggesting new features. I want to be part of ...


92

I believe the data was just beginning to be understood differently around the time I left the company. (The timeline fits at least.) For many years the company used meta sites as a way of communicating with the most engaged users. Sometime in late 2015, I noticed a different model of meta users. Instead of seeing Meta as influencers, parts of the company ...


88

We're definitely looking at this and I, at least, feel it is strongly on-mission. However, it would be a major feature and will take (seriously, no really) 6-8 months to put together. And of course there are other things we're working on, but just know that we think this is a great idea that solves a real problem, and meets a real need on the network right ...


83

Meta is a flawed site in many ways. But it does allow for more complex and elaborate discussions and feedback. The feedback mechanisms I see in the blog post seem to boil down everything into something that fits into a single-line textfield. That doesn't seem all that useful except to get a high-level overview. The mechanisms that allow more feedback than a ...


81

Just a few random thoughts. We have [..] north of 100k new users signing up to the public Q&A each month (coders are everywhere!) Indeed they are. So, perhaps using the term "north" to mean "increasing value" is not very welcoming. Are users from the southern hemisphere less valuable? Let's use a term other than "north" to mean "good", because that's ...


77

So.... first thoughts. This reads like it was intended to be an apology of sorts — that corp, after realizing that they were acting with bad or incomplete data and took actions that, well, caused the biggest hullabaloo on the network to date, are now trying to fix some of that damage. It's... a start. It includes taking responsibility for some of ...


76

This is kinda difficult to write. I know there's good folks out there who I actually think believe in meta and the community - and yet, this didn't seem a priority. It is rather ironic that the new initiative is called "the loop' when for a good chunk of the past year, at least some folks, both in the community and outside it were struggling to break the ...


75

Thought experiment Let's imagine that this week, the same person with the same attitude had posted the same complaint on meta instead of as a tweet. What would have happened? Feel free to post your own interpretation in the comments, but my answer to this is the following. Note that I'm not commenting on whether or not this is what should have happened, ...


73

From the blog post: To be clear, this does not mean channels like Meta will go away, but they need to grow to ensure that users are heard and responded to in a timely fashion. Too bad, that the most activities of SE Inc. during the last months mainly shrank the Meta communities. All of them. Because so many formerly motivated users had enough, turned ...


65

The loop is anti-transparent. For a system that considers itself community-moderated, this is a giant step in the direction of removing community discussion on moderation and policy decisions over the whole SE network. They may as well make the diamond moderators paid positions. I suspect this is the way things will go in the not-too-distant future, ...


64

My personal non-transcript, that tries to catch what is going on, and what kinda stood out. The CEO is really happy to have learned so much lately, and to work on such a great platform They are talking to "community members" He is so proud of that great platform, and the whole world using it There was real surprise by blunt feedback coming from "engineers" ...


63

It sounds to me like a thinly veiled attempt to shut down opposition to corporate interests. Have a problem? Concerned about SE as a corporation? Meh, here's a private survey. If meta still exists, which is a huge "if", then I have a hunch any type of community issues will be flagged as off-topic, closed or removed. From Sara stating in the past that ...


62

Software developers often talk about technical debt, the little bugs and shortcuts that you don’t have time to fix, and which over time, can slow, hamper, or completely cripple the system in which they reside. Just like a system can accrue technical debt, as a 10-year-old company, we have accrued community debt. It appears that Stack Exchange thinks human ...


60

I don't think it's a good option to remind users of to the option to 'post a new one' in this banner. My gut feeling says it will only lead to repeated questions, worded slightly different but not enough to make it clear. If authors decide to edit their question without much improvement, then at least the question stays closed and requires no further ...


55

They acknowledge the issues in these four words: We acknowledge these issues then apologize: apologize for our mistakes There's no link because the whole acknowledgement and apology takes up eight words, and is done with now. /s


54

A lot of Joel's later blog posts seemed to focus on promoting diversity and inclusivity among both Stack Overflow and computer science as a whole - reading through a lot of the comments and answers on meta, it seems this is directly at odds with what most users want SE to focus on. It's fine to argue for or against the changes imposed by SE, but stating this ...


53

The thing that strikes me the most about Sara's message is that there's no clear "I was wrong" statement. Sure, there's hints of this ("In hindsight, it would have been preferable to reach consensus through more research earlier[...]"), but nowhere in the blog post can we read in clear words that she did make a huge mistake. When public figures (the good ...


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