Change "comment" to "critique or request clarification"

Question

Got around to talking about comment flags with Robert Cartaino this morning... We're working on rejiggering the flagging options to make it a bit more obvious when stuff should be flagged, with the end goal of making it possible to automate some of the current flag-handling. More on that later; one of the things that came up in this discussion was the perpetual confusion among new (and some old) users about what comments can actually be used for.

And it occurred to both of us that perhaps the name itself is misleading here.

Comments are those things you find below blog posts and YouTube videos, where passers-by dump the contents of their minds. They can be useful, augmenting the article or video... But all too often, they're just a venue for sophomoric rants and trolling. Jeff argued that the real solution here is to make comments better by moderating them, but sadly this remains the exception rather than the rule...

Except here. We do moderate comments, ruthlessly! Which frequently leads to a fair bit of culture-shock from folks who are used to the meaning of "comment" everywhere else on The Internet.

So yeah. Before we make this even worse by beefing up our moderation systems, perhaps we should find a less misleading term for what we're letting folks do? One that isn't a synonym for unhelpful and unwanted chatter.

As usual, I don't have any clever ideas here... So I propose we do the obvious thing and describe what we actually want: critiques and requests for clarification for the post being commented on.

To be clear: I'm only proposing changing the terminology as it appears below posts, where the link is actually an action rather than just a name. Comments can remain as "comments" everywhere else.

Thoughts? Critiques? Post 'em as answers for the irony.

Answer 1

As Al E., I think critique is too fancy a word for UI, and I don't like any of the alternatives either.

I think you should totally drop the renaming idea, and try jQuery.

Specifically, this neat animated slide-out, which all users <100 rep see:

On top of the formatting help, put a clear message in bold:

Comments are strictly moderated. Use them to ask for clarification or critique the post. Chatty comments will be removed.

Optionally, bump the threshold for showing this message to, say, 111 or 125 points — so that association bonus holders also see it once in a while. Indeed, a noticeable source of noisy comments are SO users commenting on Hot Network Questions on sites where they have 101 rep.

Answer 2

Two suggestions:

1. Change the link to just "request improvement" (or "request clarification"). While critiquing can be a valid use of comments too, it opens the door to what can become a debate in comments. If we just say "request improvement" then experienced users and people who'll click no matter what may both still leave critiques too (we didn't say not to), so you're not shutting it down. But let's emphasize the main thing that comments are for: to request improvements to the post.

2. This suggestion comes from this Workplace meta post, where we have the comments problem in spades: next to this link, add another link called something like "discuss this post" — and that link goes to chat. Maybe that's how we make it easier to get a room. But do something to actively redirect the discussion people really seem to want to have, away from comments.

Answer 3

I like the intent, but this seems like it would have a really negative effect on usability, especially for new users.

We call it "commenting" everywhere else in the system, and "critique or request clarification" doesn't sound like anything I would associate with commenting. If we could come up with a synonym for "comment" that worked everywhere, I could maybe see changing it system-wide, but just changing it here seems like plain obfuscation. If we just want to make it harder to find, let's do that.

The one other place we do this, replacing "edit" with "improve this question", I think "improve this question" actually sounds more appealing than "edit". "Edit" sounds like work, "improve this question" sounds like I'm making the world better! Here "critique or request clarification" sounds a lot less appealing than "add a comment". It might actually drive people to click "Add an answer" when they want to comment, because that now sounds like the logical place to write up a quick reply.

On the plus side, this seems like it might be A/B testable. I suspect what we'll see is a significant loss of good comments as well as bad, and I'm not sure how many good comments we're willing to sacrifice for this.

Answer 4

As you probably are aware, I have, ah, passionately wanted something like for some time. The "comment" definition here is so incongrous with the rest of the Internet.

We've discussed this on Workplace meta before and something like this would be great.

Some suggestions from there:

Instead, consider adding a link within the main UI, labeled something like "Discuss this Question/Answer in more detail" which leads the user directly to a Chat Room.

and, instead of "add comment":

suggest an improvement

annotate / Add Annotation

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Main thought is meta sites. They definitely are more discussion friendly, through comments in a more traditional sense. They are also quite confusing to new users already due to how voting works there and the culture of commenting on meta is not likely to and shouldn't change..

Answer 5

Part of the reason that youtube comments (and other similar type of comments) don't work very well is because they quickly become not only off topic but either vulgar or combative. Anyone who has used the internet has probably seen this.

Encouraging this would be counter productive, and offering the first word up as "critique" leaves that door wide open. While critiquing is supposed to mean offering a detailed analysis, many users and especially English as a second language users, are going to view this as "criticize", which is defined as "indicate the faults of (someone or something) in a disapproving way." As a result, using the word "critique" is undesirable.

The core of what was intended from critique is analysis. So use that word instead because that is really what makes good comments. A solid analysis at the bottom of the answer can help a post or cause any problematic aspects to come to light; it is not inherently "disapproving". This will open the door for constructive criticism without actually using the word.

Answer 6

I'm adding this as a separate answer since it's a completely different train of thought than my previous answer (which I've CW'd because posting two answers feels icky).

In thinking about this more, something about "request clarification" doesn't sit well with me. It's hard for me to put into words but:

• "Critique" (and "add comment") is something that you do. If I clicked something labeled "critique" or "add comment" I would naturally expect to be presented with a free input. On the other hand, if I clicked something labeled "request clarification", it almost feels like I should expect the system to take some action on my behalf, e.g. to send the user a notification that says "Clarification has been requested on your post" without me having a say in it. Instead of it feeling like something I do it feels like something the system would do. This is hard to describe but it feels wrong.
• To me, a "request" is something that I expect to be fulfilled. While this is subtle, I feel like if it were to say "request clarification" a user may be slightly more put off if they don't receive the clarification they requested, because it appears as if there is some sort of nonexistent clarification-oriented request/response system in place. I think it builds an expectation, even subconsciously, which increases the dissatisfaction if that expectation is not met.

One benefit of the current "add comment" is it gives the user zero expectation. It is entirely one-sided. You just... add a comment. Maybe it's ignored, maybe it isn't, but no result is implied.

If I had better suggestions I would offer them. I wish I did, but I don't, and the more I think about it, for lack of a better idea, the more I kind of like just "add comment" but with the improved tooltip for clarification of purpose. Since the point of this is to get the purpose of comments across, the tooltip at least presents the information in an accessible way. Also, don't forget the hint text in the comment form may be an opportunity for improvement as well.

Working some amount of "documentation" into the link text would be nice, and the rationale behind the proposal makes sense, but the current "add comment" still concisely sums up the basic action itself even if it doesn't quite communicate the purpose of the action or the relevant etiquette (sort of like how the "Ask Question" link doesn't read "Ask a Good, Clear Question After Doing Research", but we still accept it as good enough), and every suggested alternative (so far) seems to introduce some subtle down sides.

It's possible that I'm merely assuming the role of the fabled ultra-pedantic meta user getting this out of my system and that there's not much merit here. Still, the original proposal and most of the discussion here focuses on the information that is being presented and I think it's also important to consider what a user might expect to happen.

Answer 7

I feel mostly apathy towards this. It doesn't seem that... helpful, but it definitely doesn't seem like it can hurt. Changing the text of the link doesn't take anything away from anybody or block any actions, so... seems like a big old "whatever".

I don't know if "critique" is the right word though. "You suck" is still a critique. "Critique" and "comment" are synonyms, I'm not sure what you're expecting with one that you wouldn't expect with the other. It's hard to escape calling a comment a comment. I don't really have a better suggestion though, mostly because this seems like such a trivial change that it's hard to think about -- you could write "add a kerflopelblorp" and it still probably wouldn't make a big usability difference. I suppose you could ask on https://english.stackexchange.com/.

But all too often, they're just a venue for sophomoric rants and trolling.

I imagine folks will still type stuff in the box if they have something to say, then press submit. Sophomoric ranters and trolls probably aren't going to care what the link says. I can't imagine the thought process of "I'm angry! But this text says 'critiques and clarification requests', so nevermind."

It doesn't really seem like it will have much of an effect at all but I can't think of any compelling reason not to do it. The whole thing seems like a no-op. If there's an outlet for people to enter text and have it be displayed, it will be used to post whatever anybody wants to say, no matter what it's called.

Just don't forget to change the expansion text to "show 11 more critiques and clarification requests"...

Answer 8

Everyone should know by now how to solve that problem, but whatever.

Moving on, if you don't want to be verbose-y, you can leave it at "request clarification" since it's a form of critique*.

* critique: systematic inquiry into the conditions and consequences of a concept or set of concepts, and an attempt to understand its limitations. (source: Wikipedia)

It comes with the plus that expansions can also be "clarifications" since they make more clear the post by adding more information, that can ultimately be included on the post.

So, it's plus by both sides: unclear/imprecise post can be asked for clarification; otherwise fine post can be further clarified by adding information.

Either way, old users will not be surprised and newer users will be more constructive in their first iteration with this tool.

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About the "show X more comment" you can remove comment and leave it at "show X more". Since it's besides "request clarification", show more implies "show me previous/hidden clarification requests"

Answer 9

Two observations:

1. It looks like a cheesy move due to Parkinson's Law. Too minor to implement and adding unnecessary complexity to SE.

2. It would make sense to test UX-related questions at UX.SE. It has been done before, but I would urge devs to go to UX.SE more often. Maybe this is also fodder for ELU.SE (synonyms/alternatives to comment).