Timeline for What is the XY problem?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
20 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 9 at 19:03 | history | edited | Timo Tijhof | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
mention GreyCat
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| Nov 29, 2019 at 5:38 | history | edited | The Tin Man | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
edited for readability
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| Jun 8, 2019 at 3:19 | comment | added | Timothy | I guess this answer is useful. Although it appears in the link to Gnome's answer, some people care only about reading the answer and not about reading the web page it links. I guess it was useful to write that information as a stand alone answer here for that reason so I upvote it. Also you properly linked the source of the information in this answer so I don't think there's a problem. | |
| Jan 25, 2019 at 8:52 | comment | added | Sandun | Imo this is the one which should be on top.No offense on the top answer,but I first read that and it made me scratch my head and then I came down to see this and the answer got crystal clear to me. | |
| Jul 17, 2018 at 16:59 | comment | added | B Seven | Great explanation. RE: "and that Y wasn't even a suitable solution for X", I think that sometimes Y can be a solution for X. But it is not a natural or practical solution. | |
| May 7, 2018 at 0:48 | comment | added | tgm1024--Monica was mistreated | @trixn, of course you can point someone in the right direction, and of course you can guide someone toward a new way of looking at something. However, to start with the notion that the question formation itself is somehow wrong is what I'm at strong odds with. For example, look at the hyperbolic quote in the 71 upvoted answer by Jonathan Benn: "Specific to Q&A, the perniciousness of an XY problem comes from the fact that it is frustrating for everyone involved." That is simply nonsense. The XY question is valuable. It's only frustrating for people who wish it to be so. | |
| May 3, 2018 at 12:45 | comment | added | trixn | @tgm1024 That is literally what you already said before. My point was about your statement that admonishing XY problems is particularly noob-unfriendly. Of course it's also a question of how you express your suspicion that a question might be an XY problem. But generally speaking I don't agree that pointing an asker towards that is noob-unfriendly as it might in fact be what he/she actually needs. That's why I usually ask for more information about the use-case. If Y is an easy to answer question I usually answer it anyway with a note that it might not be the desired solution anyways. | |
| May 3, 2018 at 12:27 | comment | added | tgm1024--Monica was mistreated | @trixn, I'm not sure where we disagree. However, --->If you do have problem X and state Y as your solution and ask help for Y, what you're doing is establishing your (likely faulty) understanding of the problem. When I want to help someone, I want to know not only their X question, but how it is that they are currently thinking (the Y). Sometimes it's more important to teach how to think than to teach what to think. And their appropriate and valuable XY problem gives me important clues as to how to approach doing just that. | |
| Mar 19, 2018 at 18:15 | comment | added | trixn | @tgm1024 It's about avoiding wasting a lot of time for both the asker and the answerers. If you are aware of the caveats of a possibly valid Y then you should include that information in your question. Further asking for X will be avoided. If you don't know the caveats asking for X is probably exactly what you need because a solution for Y will not help you very much. It would be noob unfriendly to not point them towards the correct solution and instead leave them with a poor solution. | |
| Jan 5, 2018 at 9:34 | comment | added | MadHatter | Sometimes that's pretty much right. Many years ago, after my Oracle DBA turned to me (his sysadmin) and said, wearily, "Somehow, somewhere, something has gone wrong" I made myself a t-shirt with that on it. It is in many ways a perfect error report because it doesn't make any assumptions that I then have to rebut: it starts off with his problem and lets me drill down through his observations and his expectations to see where the mismatch with reality might be. | |
| Nov 29, 2017 at 15:55 | comment | added | Att Righ | User doesn't know how to do X, but thinks they can fumble their way to a solution if they can just manage to do Y. Sounds like how all problems are solved to me :P . Taken to its extreme everyone should start their question with "I want to improve my life / the world in some way. I was born in 19..." | |
| Oct 3, 2017 at 12:34 | comment | added | tgm1024--Monica was mistreated | @JiK, You either identify it as an XY problem or you don't. If you do, then you're well aware of the X. If you don't, then you'd better not assume what the X is, because the presented Y might actually be a validly formed question. | |
| Sep 29, 2017 at 23:04 | comment | added | JiK | @tgm1024 I don't quite understand your comments; the XY problem is not when a user includes their thinking process by giving both X and Y in the question, it's when the user doesn't include their thinking process and gives only the Y because especially in that case it's hard to teach them to think. | |
| Dec 23, 2016 at 23:02 | comment | added | tgm1024--Monica was mistreated | Actually, admonishing XY problems is particularly noob-unfriendly. And (to pick, oh, one): stackoverflow has been atrocious in this regard in the last few years. I'm holding out that the other programmer centric SE sites don't so irreparably screwup like they did. | |
| Dec 23, 2016 at 22:58 | comment | added | tgm1024--Monica was mistreated | I disagree with the answer. If you do have problem X and state Y as your solution and ask help for Y, what you're doing is establishing your (likely faulty) understanding of the problem. When I want to help someone, I want to know not only their X question, but how it is that they are currently thinking (the Y). Sometimes it's more important to teach how to think than to teach what to think. And the XY problem gives me important clues as to how to approach doing just that. | |
| Mar 18, 2016 at 20:32 | comment | added | Kulingar | This particular answer reminds me of Maslow's Hammer | |
| Sep 8, 2015 at 2:02 | comment | added | peterh | I think it is the users' responsibility. I've meet many times the problem, that I wanted to solve the problem X, and everybody suggested Y and Z. But if I had wanted a solution for Y or Z, this is what I had asked. I find this a little bit embarrassing, not only because the answers I get don't belong to my question, but also because I feel myself underestimated. Since that I intentionally miss any details which could mislead my answerers into this bad way. | |
| Feb 4, 2015 at 20:17 | comment | added | user2421308 | I also think this answer is a needed addition to the explanation. I read the above, tried to think about my current problem (whether it is an X or Y question), and when I read on to this comment, I got the "aha" moment of understanding that if I would have posted my question, I would have inquired about the Y not the X. The reiteration of my situation could be a mental block focused on how I am solving the problem rather than clearly stating the problem I want to solve is very helpful. | |
| S Jun 6, 2014 at 4:24 | history | answered | Zombo | CC BY-SA 3.0 | |
| S Jun 6, 2014 at 4:24 | history | made wiki | Post Made Community Wiki by Zombo |