Timeline for The second draft of our Code of Conduct is available for feedback and review
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
37 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 29, 2018 at 13:23 | comment | added | Lundin | While I fully agree with this post, there was a change to the title over at SO earlier this year: "Stack Overflow - Where Developers Learn, Share, & Build Careers". Ignoring the minor grammar mistakes, this is apparently what SO the company wants to roll out. More accurately it should perhaps be "Where kids come with their homework questions", as there's certainly far more of that than of career building. Or to update to the new CoC: "Where nice kids come with their nice homework questions". | |
| Jul 31, 2018 at 19:13 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/313428/165773 // fixed URL tested on FF and Chrome
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| Jul 30, 2018 at 13:50 | comment | added | Braiam | @Praveen the problem is that "learning material" has a very specific structure of providing knowledge, knowledge base on the other hand doesn't follow such structure. If you see the program for computer science, courses for programming and compare them to SO. You will notice that the information contained on SO isn't the kind you will find on those courses. | |
| Jul 29, 2018 at 22:22 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/255019/839601
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| Jul 29, 2018 at 21:27 | comment | added | Praveen | I feel like the word "learning" has different connotations to different people, and perhaps that's the issue here. I certainly agree that one of the greatest achievements of SO is that it gives clear and concise solutions to commonly encountered problems, but I perceive those kinds of answers also as a form of learning. I don't think that answering every single homework question is what this site is about, and indeed those are the kinds of questions that often show no research effort, and hence a certain unwillingness to actually learn or understand, instead simply demanding an answer. | |
| Jul 29, 2018 at 21:15 | comment | added | gnat | @Praveen I am sorry to hear that you disagree but really I can do nothing about that. My answer is based on the way how I use Stack Overflow for many years already and on how it helps me and on how I want it to stay helpful to me. If it turns into learning site instead of Q&A then I will be very disappointed. When I need to learn something I can find plenty resources elsewhere but when it comes to concrete answers to concrete programming questions, SO is the source and there is nothing like that and it would be sad if this get lost in the name of learning | |
| Jul 29, 2018 at 21:01 | comment | added | Praveen | ... Some of the most highly upvoted answers on the site are those that explain a concept or an idea really well. To me, "learning" isn't something you can only do by setting aside time, and poring over "learning material" like books and lectures and tutorials; I have learned so much from comments on SO. I feel that changing "learning" to "knowledge-sharing" would be doing a disservice to the spirit of StackOverflow, because good answers should seek to educate and explain the why, not simply solve a problem. | |
| Jul 29, 2018 at 21:01 | comment | added | Praveen | I'm sorry to say that I completely disagree with your answer. In fact, I loved the idea of calling it a "learning community", because to me, that is what the spirit of StackOverflow is all about. Indeed, the very first badges one gets for asking an answering a question are called "Student" and "Teacher"! Moreover, learning encompasses asking as well as answering: there have been so many times that I have learned something new through answering a question, and I really feel that this aspect of continually improving oneself while helping others is what drives many answerers here... | |
| Jul 24, 2018 at 8:40 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312850/the-second-draft-of-our-code-of-conduct-is-available-for-feedback-and-review/312859?noredirect=1#comment1025558_312859
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| Jul 23, 2018 at 8:11 | comment | added | gnat | ...as for your mention of the masses, even though I don't feel oblidged to care about anyone but myself, I would nevertheless suggest you pay attention to traffic stats referred in comments above. My understanding is, ~10m visits/day to Stack Overflow, with its almost religious focus on concrete questions and answers (as opposed eg to learning materials) make solid indication of what attracts "masses" | |
| Jul 23, 2018 at 8:11 | comment | added | gnat | @BoltClock'saUnicorn sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean by "focus on the sharer as opposed to the reader". If you read my answer you'll see that I am not the sharer but reader: I read and use the knowledge shared by others at Stack Overflow (several times a day almost daily for last several years, so it's not like an observation from an occasional passer by)... | |
| Jul 23, 2018 at 7:15 | comment | added | BoltClock's a Unicorn | Having said that I now understand the negative connotations that "learning" seems to carry - it's unfortunate, for sure, but I understand the urge to replace it. | |
| Jul 23, 2018 at 7:10 | comment | added | BoltClock's a Unicorn | Placing focus on the sharer as opposed to the reader seems a little strange to me. It's true that without knowledge you can't have learning, but that's the thing: the entire point of sharing knowledge is so others can benefit from it. If you as a sharer don't pick up any of the knowledge that others have shared, that's your own prerogative, but I don't think the site exists to serve you alone, or at least preferentially over the masses who gain knowledge as they stop by every now and then. | |
| Jul 22, 2018 at 10:54 | comment | added | Rui F Ribeiro | It is very pertinent using getting answers instead of getting help. In Unix and Linux, for instance, we are being assailed by a lot of low quality questions, often one liners. expecting help desk level assistance instead of answers to direct questions. I hope it does not help the same as In travel stack exchange where the noise/ratio scale is pending more to simple and repetitive questions. I used to like that group, I avoid it nowadays. | |
| Jul 22, 2018 at 0:47 | comment | added | gnat | @Rob that certainly happens. However Q&A is generally a poor format for systemic, structured learning. Which is in fact good for me, because I use this network for different purpose (explained in my answer) where it works fairly well and I don't want it to get worse in that. Guess many (most?) folks who make 9.8m visits/day at Stack Overflow also feel that way | |
| Jul 22, 2018 at 0:01 | comment | added | Rob | Sometimes the learning comes from researching the answer to a question, occasionally earning a necromancer badge. | |
| Jul 21, 2018 at 17:40 | comment | added | Cindy Meister | Wish I could upvote this twice, or thrice... | |
| Jul 21, 2018 at 7:10 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312850/the-second-draft-of-our-code-of-conduct-is-available-for-feedback-and-review/312873#comment1024875_312873
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| Jul 20, 2018 at 18:23 | comment | added | gnat | ...to me, using Stack Overflow is like driving with GPS device: I arrive at desired place very quickly and precisely but I learn absolutely nothing about places and roads I was driving through (and I drive with GPS a lot because I don't have enough tie to learn every place) | |
| Jul 20, 2018 at 16:53 | comment | added | gnat | well absolutely yes @Nemo because it is exactly how I myself use knowledge shared by kind folks at Stack Overflow. When I use SO I don't have time to learn something, because I am doing my coding job - I search for concrete questions and get answers to these at SO. When I learn something it happens in another time and I user other resources, much better suited for learning than SO | |
| Jul 20, 2018 at 16:36 | comment | added | Nemo | Can one share knowledge without learning? | |
| Jul 20, 2018 at 4:32 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
formatting kaizen
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| Jul 19, 2018 at 22:30 | comment | added | gnat | I agree with what @Wildcard wrote and even can add authoritative reference supporting that ("Stack Overflow is not a large community...") Not sure if it is technically possible to write CoC text without using word "community" (that's why I kept it in my own answer) but it would be anyway useful to clearly and explicitly state this in a dedicated answer as a part of the feedback. (though it would be at risk of being voted down by "welcome wagon" folks who might feel unhappy seeing stuff like that) | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 22:13 | comment | added | Wildcard | @JonSG, that's an excellent point. I think you should turn that into an answer, actually. This was an underlying point of my answer to the original draft; my answer was addressed somewhat literally in this second revision, but your comment spotlights the exact way in which I intended that answer. This site is not about community, and this second draft still ignores that fact. | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 21:55 | comment | added | gnat | @JonSG interesting that "power users" appear to vastly outnumber "neophytes". For example traffic stats for Stack Overflow currently say "9.8m visits/day" - probably from folks like me who are looking for answers, while those who ask make ~1000x(!) less than that: "7.1k questions/day" | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 21:29 | comment | added | JonSG | This answer highlights what I see as the main disconnect between power users and neophytes. The former want to define this site as a knowledge resource akin to perhaps WikipidiaDotCom. This group sees poor questions as unwelcoming and hostile. They want to solve things by improving questions. The latter see this site as a QnA resource akin to AnswersDotCom and are shocked that their seemingly benign question is met with apparent ire. As neophytes they likely just never participate again, though if they did they would likely frame respondents as the problem. There is a huge disconnect here. | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 18:34 | comment | added | Tinkeringbell Mod | That's okay, I thought it wasn't self-sufficient enough to be another answer, so I put it in a comment thinking it would get upvoted enough if enough people liked it to not be buried. But this is an awesome alternative too! :D | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 18:31 | comment | added | gnat | @Tinkeringbell ...I am still not completely sure mind you but your idea really seems too good to be buried in comments so I made an edit to explicitly incorporate it as an option to consider | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 18:30 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312850/the-second-draft-of-our-code-of-conduct-is-available-for-feedback-and-review/312856#comment1024843_312859
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| Jul 19, 2018 at 18:09 | comment | added | gnat | @Tinkeringbell this sounds like a worthy alternative. I tried to imagine how it would read and word community alone feels a bit like missing something but extended to "site community" seems to blend in really well. Maybe even better than first version I proposed, although I haven't yet fully made up my mind on that | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 17:53 | comment | added | Tinkeringbell Mod | Or just entirely scratch the learning? I mean, it's referred to as 'the community' throughout the rest of the document and the second sentence already explains that it's about people asking questions and sharing what they know: 'Whether you’ve come to ask questions or to generously share what you know,' | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 17:48 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
minor wordsmithing
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| Jul 19, 2018 at 17:19 | history | edited | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
two relatively minor spelling changes
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| Jul 19, 2018 at 17:14 | comment | added | user310756 | yeh I agree, I wasn't 100% with your or my suggestion. I still gave you an upvote, as the learning needs to be removed. IMO | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 17:08 | comment | added | gnat | @YvetteColomb "base" would probably be even better but won't blend well with word "community" that follows. That community word probably can be thrown away from the first part I quoted - "This Code of Conduct helps us build a collaborative knowledge base" - but is likely necessary in the second because it appears to focus on "kind" (knowledge base can't be kind:) | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 17:03 | comment | added | user310756 | or knowledge base?. I agree with premise. | |
| Jul 19, 2018 at 17:02 | history | answered | gnat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |