Timeline for The "loop" has arrived. What does the community think about it?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
110 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| S Feb 2, 2020 at 10:53 | history | bounty ended | gnat | ||
| S Feb 2, 2020 at 10:53 | history | notice removed | gnat | ||
| S Jan 28, 2020 at 12:11 | history | bounty started | gnat | ||
| S Jan 28, 2020 at 12:11 | history | notice added | gnat | Reward existing answer | |
| Dec 2, 2019 at 21:14 | comment | added | Andrew Grimm | @SaraChipps please fix the misspelling of “decent” - it should be “descent”. It’s disrespectful to have such an error after they were left off the survey list. | |
| Nov 30, 2019 at 20:54 | comment | added | biziclop | Y'know, in our country, sometimes we have these "National Consultation" thingies. It's our Loop… hungarianspectrum.org/2017/04/02/… | |
| Nov 30, 2019 at 15:26 | comment | added | allo | It looks like a way to move criticism from a page where everyone can discuss it into a more closed section, that prevents the general public from reading and discussing the criticism, thus enabling the team to hear the feedback without any need to react, because everyone thinks "maybe I am the only one with this feedback", while meta allows people to see how many other people share their opinion. | |
| Nov 30, 2019 at 9:19 | history | edited | GhostCat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 29, 2019 at 15:12 | comment | added | Rounin | Technical definition of racist: one who subscribes to the philosophy that races exist and the global human population can be divided into races. On that basis, quite a lot of US society and culture really is extraordinarily racist. How depressing. | |
| Nov 29, 2019 at 11:41 | answer | added | MechMK1 | timeline score: 39 | |
| Nov 27, 2019 at 17:50 | comment | added | SOS | @SébastienRenauld - If the goal is appearances, rather than taking the time to put together an approach which actually addresses the issues of the whole community,then yes ;-) | |
| Nov 27, 2019 at 15:07 | comment | added | Gloweye | It's rather telling that they are trying to invent something new while most of the community is programmers from all layers of experience, plenty of which are very familiar with feedback systems. On all identification questions, I answered "Other (Comment: This is irrelevant for StackOverflow - because it should be.)" | |
| Nov 27, 2019 at 9:10 | comment | added | Sébastien Renauld | @Ageax it's fine to exclude 99.7% of the community, cherry-pick a working group that fits your ideals, and keep all the data private so nobody sees that, yeah? | |
| Nov 27, 2019 at 8:52 | comment | added | henning no longer feeds AI | So you introduce a focus group ... and eventually close this pesky Meta. | |
| Nov 27, 2019 at 0:22 | comment | added | canadianer | These weekly controversies are becoming quite tiresome. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 21:55 | comment | added | SOS | All the recent talk about "inclusivity" and the first version of this survey excludes "Black / African American". Oh, the irony. The first impression is one of something hastily thrown together, and poorly thought out. i.e. Not ready for prime time. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 21:45 | answer | added | Andrew Grimm | timeline score: 25 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 20:50 | answer | added | Makoto | timeline score: 5 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 19:46 | answer | added | user | timeline score: 18 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 17:56 | comment | added | kenorb | Joel left, and SE as we know it is dead | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 16:22 | answer | added | E.P. | timeline score: 34 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 16:09 | comment | added | the default. | We've already moved on from pretending Monica doesn't exist to pretending majorities don't exist, and now we're pretending nobody at all exists! | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 16:08 | comment | added | Sébastien Renauld | @LightnessRaceswithMonica Correct. In France, for instance, it is dangerously illegal; same with Germany. Also, on top of that I see no right to view, edit or delete information despite SO/SE (and that survey) being accessible to us Europeans. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 16:07 | history | edited | GhostCat |
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| Nov 26, 2019 at 15:31 | comment | added | Lightness Races in Orbit | @SébastienRenauld In some places it's illegal to ask for. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 15:29 | answer | added | T. Sar | timeline score: 18 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 15:27 | comment | added | JMac | So are they only looking for feedback from Stack Overflow users in particular right now? It seems like I should only respond to the survey if I use SO (which I don't). Is this survey being used to affect the entire network, or just SO? If it's the former, why is the survey only geared towards SO? | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 14:32 | comment | added | l4mpi | Regarding the demographic questions such as gender, race, age, nationality,etc: how would SE even start to verify that everybody is answering those questions truthfully? And if anybody can pretend to be part of a minority group (e.g. thinking their feedback would be prioritized over others), it's worthless to base anything upon that information, and thus it's useless to collect that information. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 14:06 | answer | added | user540056 | timeline score: 16 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 13:53 | answer | added | motosubatsu | timeline score: 24 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 13:26 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | I'm satisfied with the speed of the company rolling out new features lately, I'm just not satisfied with the direction. Unfortunately, the net effect is negative and I have never thought harder about alternatives ever. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 13:04 | answer | added | ColleenV | timeline score: 65 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 11:48 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | The name and the idea of having a selected group of followers instead of the whole community somehow feels like a cultural cliché taken from a dystopian sci-fi movie of the 80s. Are you not in The Loop? Be in The Loop! The somewhat immersion breaking thing is that they also kind of botched the roll-out. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 11:43 | answer | added | Unhappy trans girl | timeline score: 44 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 10:39 | answer | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | timeline score: 21 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 10:16 | answer | added | Magisch | timeline score: 20 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 9:53 | answer | added | Sextus Empiricus | timeline score: 26 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 9:01 | comment | added | GhostCat | @LightnessRaceswithMonica I let him know what I think about his idea .... | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 8:44 | answer | added | Journeyman GeekMod | timeline score: 77 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 8:03 | comment | added | Sébastien Renauld | In Europe, this kind of race question would be flat-out called for what it is: discriminative. You don't need that information; requiring it (or allowing to optionally put it in) is at best noise in the data, at worst a way to filter behind the scenes. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 5:51 | comment | added | auden | Because "gender non-binary" is definitely the standard term. /s Honestly, was any proofreading done at all? | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 3:10 | answer | added | Rebecca J. Stones | timeline score: 1 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 2:52 | answer | added | Kyle Fairns | timeline score: 47 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 2:43 | comment | added | Scott Hannen | "Meta requests don’t integrate with any existing ticketing system." That perfectly explains why Monica hasn't been reinstated. No one's opened a ticket for it. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 2:33 | comment | added | m69 ''snarky and unwelcoming'' | @SaraChipps Why does the survey not ask about our religious affiliation? Surely if there's one aspect of people's identity that is likely to cause them to be discriminated, it is religion? Does SE not care about under-represented religious minorities? How could you have missed this opportunity to put us into an additional box? | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 1:16 | answer | added | Wildcard | timeline score: 27 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 0:52 | comment | added | Lightness Races in Orbit | @ReinstateMonica-M.Schröder "The CEO thinks it's great" Ah, dammit. Well, there goes another bit of hope. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 0:51 | comment | added | Lightness Races in Orbit | This isn't diversity. It's the US interpretation of diversity. Big difference. | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 0:50 | review | Close votes | |||
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| Nov 26, 2019 at 0:42 | answer | added | Lightness Races in Orbit | timeline score: 82 | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 0:22 | comment | added | user651518 | @SaraChipps Why are the demographic questions even in there? How are you planning to use the data? | |
| Nov 26, 2019 at 0:06 | history | edited | This_is_NOT_a_forum | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Active reading.
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| Nov 25, 2019 at 23:43 | answer | added | Luke | timeline score: 20 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 23:41 | comment | added | curiousdannii | Could you cross post this to Meta Stack Overflow seeing as it seems they're the only community the survey is actually intended for? | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 23:22 | comment | added | Nate S. | @SaraChipps, since you're here, would you mind answering this question about whether you still intend to respond to the community's open letters, or if this is intended to replace that response? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/338313/… | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 23:11 | comment | added | Frédéric Hamidi | @ReinstateMonica-M.Schröder, yeah, proactively listen and establish deep feedback loops with our Stack Overflow community. Nice touch (but not too deep, please). You can tell the guy is serious, he has joined Twitter in 2009. I would also like to direct you to these proactive listening techniques. Sounds great on paper. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 23:01 | comment | added | Martin Schröder | The CEO thinks it's great: twitter.com/pchandrasekar/status/1199042453451542539?s=20 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 22:25 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | Sounds strange to me, at least at first. Is this some kind of beta testing? I don't want to be part of it. Where is the community in all of it? Difficult to see. So far, rejected. But I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, final judgement delayed until it is working for some time. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 21:14 | comment | added | Mark Beadles | In their hurry to fix the poorly-wrought "racial background" question, they managed to misspell descent: "Black or of African decent" | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 21:02 | answer | added | anon | timeline score: 33 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:39 | comment | added | Frédéric Hamidi | Update: the divisive question #5 is now less limited in possible options, which fixes it... in a way. inb4 nln, I'll leave my previous comment here for context. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:35 | comment | added | dfhwze | @GhostCatsaysReinstateMonica This mess is created by sheer incompetence and a childish view of the world, what else can it be? | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:30 | answer | added | Scott Seidman | timeline score: 67 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:28 | answer | added | curious | timeline score: 43 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:26 | answer | added | Jenayah | timeline score: 17 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:22 | comment | added | Script47 | @GalastelsupportsGoFundMonica yes, my mistake. Thanks. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:21 | comment | added | Lamak | @Script47 and then, after leaving a comment, doesn't appear again... | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:20 | comment | added | Galastel supports GoFundMonica | @LinkBerest Oh yes, definitely that! I was born in Europe, I could not pass for "white" if I wanted to, and I'd in fact been persecuted out of the place where I was born because my nose was the wrong shape (a.k.a I wasn't the right ethnicity). Last time anyone called my people a "race" was right before packing us off to Auschwitz, so I'm kind of touchy about using that word at all. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:19 | comment | added | Script47 | @GhostCatsaysReinstateMonica kudos for showing up? Sara has shown up several times in recent controversial posts and assured us that feedback is being taken into account and we've either been ignored or blindsided by changes like these repeatedly. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:17 | history | edited | GlorfindelMod |
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| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:15 | comment | added | Galastel supports GoFundMonica | @SaraChipps Interesting that your demographics questions ask about "race", and do not ask about nationality. Do you assume all users are from the US? If you don't want the question to be offensive, and yet want the statistics for some reason, why not ask about nationality/ethnicity, and leave the thing open, rather than multiple choice? | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:14 | comment | added | LinkBerest - SO sold our work | @SaraChipps can you explain why it uses the same language used by many hate groups? (beyond the complete lack of options which is further horrible) | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 20:04 | answer | added | cegfault | timeline score: 63 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:57 | answer | added | cefil81298tmailcloud.com | timeline score: 15 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:55 | comment | added | GhostCat | My last statement for today: given that SE Inc supposedly invested plenty of time and preparation, and actually moved out this announcement a few days ... I am wondering how terrible and bad the initial material must have looked. Un-f....ing-believable. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:52 | comment | added | GhostCat | @SaraChipps Err, I don't care whether it is mandatory or optional. It is plain wrong, doesn't belong in any survey written in 2019. Yet, kudos for showing up here. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:50 | history | edited | GhostCat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:49 | comment | added | Lamak | @FrédéricHamidi It's kind of unbelievable...this is so wrong | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:47 | comment | added | Sara Chipps StaffMod | Hey All - thanks for the feedback here we're reading through all of it. The demographic questions should not have been mandatory, the survey has been updated. Appreciate you pointing that out. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:39 | comment | added | Lamak | The whole thing reads as satire, really...couldn't take it seriously at all | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:39 | history | edited | GhostCat |
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| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:36 | answer | added | cefil81298tmailcloud.com | timeline score: 130 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:34 | comment | added | Christian Rau | @Giuseppe Rather they're just going with the flow of their previously employed narrative of the CoC always being the way it is now and just requiring a "minor clarification" about what a specific phrase from it means in specific situations. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:29 | answer | added | cefil81298tmailcloud.com | timeline score: 96 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:27 | comment | added | Luuklag | They apparently want to cut us out of the loop. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:27 | answer | added | Mad Scientist | timeline score: 85 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:24 | comment | added | Giuseppe | It's weird to me that they state that the "current Code of Conduct" was published in 2018 and link back to the 2018 blog post announcement rather than the ACTUAL current CoC announcement which was, what, a month ago? It could be a simple editing mistake, but it needs to be corrected either way. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:22 | comment | added | ColleenV | @JJforTransparencyandMonica Actually there’s a required question about how long you’ve been coding... no option for the non-coders because their opinion doesn’t count. And for the record I’ve been coding for cough 3 decades.( I uh, started when I was uh 2 ;)) so I am fluent in “developer”. Reading between the lines I still get “People who don’t know the difference between managed and unmanaged memory don’t have relevant opinions about the important work developers do” (paraphrasing). | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:16 | comment | added | GhostCat | @ColleenV Yes. Note that the whole "loop" only asks about StackOverflow. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:10 | answer | added | The Anathema | timeline score: 253 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:08 | comment | added | ColleenV | @FrédéricHamidi I couldn’t believe it. Normally it’s Asians that get screwed over in American race politics, but to leave black people out entirely? Wow. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:06 | answer | added | Wildcard | timeline score: 143 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 19:00 | comment | added | Frédéric Hamidi | I am completely lost. Look again at the infamous survey question #5 about which racial background(s) you identify with. Doesn't it look a little short? I mean, if you're going for racism, why leave black people out? | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:51 | answer | added | Resistance Is Futile | timeline score: 122 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:47 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @JJforTransparencyandMonica on CGCC we develop code and focus on making it as unreadable as possible :D | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:44 | comment | added | JJJ | @ColleenV they may be taking that a bit broadly. ;p On ELL users develop their 2nd/3rd/4th.. language. On ELU users develop complex grammatical structures. On Skeptics users develop their critical mindset. On Area51 users develop new communities. And on this Meta people complain about mismanagement. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:41 | answer | added | SmrtGrunt | timeline score: 44 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:39 | comment | added | ColleenV | people from all corners of the developer community Stack Overflow and programmers are apparently the only thing that matters even though there are 100+ non-developer communities. Typical. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:35 | answer | added | JJJ | timeline score: 112 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:33 | history | edited | GhostCat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:26 | answer | added | GhostCat | timeline score: 180 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:23 | answer | added | John Omielan | timeline score: 52 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:15 | comment | added | Christian Rau | @AJM-Reinstate-Monica I can undrestand SE employees vetting that core group. However, there aren't even public applications. I'm not even sure how they're even trying to find that "diverse" group of users, given that they apparently want them assembled in about a month. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:13 | history | edited | GhostCat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:06 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @AJM-Reinstate-Monica spoiler alert: "advisory group" will be a cherry-picked set of employees most loyal to the king and nobody else, with the subtext that if you're not part of the group it's because we want to sack you in a year. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 18:01 | comment | added | AJM | "We’ll ... create a new working group of users that we’ll lean on for regular feedback" ... "By the end of this year, we will have completed discovery for the working group of users and will have identified the people we would like to recruit.". The user working group is selected by SO employees, not nominated by/voted for by the community. It's also not clear what sort of process there will be for choosing the members of the moderator advisory team, or how much input mods/users will have when a team member is replaced. So... I'm not optimistic. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 17:57 | answer | added | Galastel supports GoFundMonica | timeline score: 335 | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 17:49 | comment | added | Mast | Are you interested in anything specifically? This is not a broad discussion forum, so a bit of direction seems necessary if you want more than a large, incoherent collection of opinions. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 17:43 | comment | added | Galastel supports GoFundMonica | Well, we can all answer the survey with how we are troubled by the way Monica Cellio was treated, as well as by other SE decisions. Maybe they'll listen this time. | |
| Nov 25, 2019 at 17:33 | history | asked | GhostCat | CC BY-SA 4.0 |