Timeline for Practical effects of the October 2023 layoff
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
18 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 22, 2023 at 10:29 | comment | added | IMSoP | @mmmmmm Mr experience and understanding (in the UK) aligns with nvoigt's - if you are reducing the number of employees who are in the same role, you have to create measurable criteria, and rank the candidates. It's actually for exactly the reason John M. Wright gave: secrecy isn't enough, you need to be ready to answer any legal challenge with evidence that you followed a fair process. | |
| Oct 20, 2023 at 17:09 | comment | added | mmmmmm | They have to stop the prjects those developers are on - I don't know what happens if all are doing the same thing. | |
| Oct 20, 2023 at 12:31 | comment | added | nvoigt | @mmmmmm What happens when you remove 5 out of 10 developer jobs? Can the company just pick who they like best? In Germany, the company has to prove that they did not pick for performance. | |
| Oct 20, 2023 at 11:54 | comment | added | mmmmmm | @nvoigt Ok in Uk performance can't be used as layoff criteria but neither can you use (like age, number of dependents, salary, number of years in the company) . The only criteria is does the job exist after the layoffs. | |
| Oct 20, 2023 at 11:46 | comment | added | nvoigt | @mmmmmm No it is not. It's actually mandatory in Germany. When you remove a job (compared to a person), you have to pick objective criteria and publish them. None of the criteria say anything about whether or not the specific person was good at their job though. | |
| Oct 20, 2023 at 11:42 | comment | added | mmmmmm | @nvoight what you list as criteria for letting go would be illegal in the UK and I would guess EU. You have to close down a job - ie do less things and the let go the people doing that job. It does not matter how well or bad the employee was or any details about them. | |
| Oct 20, 2023 at 8:26 | comment | added | Shadow Wizard | @TooTea I see, and glad to hear. Can only hope the non-USA employees of Stack Exchange are treated properly, according to their local laws, which are most likely better than the USA. | |
| Oct 20, 2023 at 7:14 | comment | added | TooTea | @ShadowWizardIsSadAndAngry There's little room for "common sense" when the law is involved. Speaking from extensive personal experience, at least in the EU, it's where the work actually takes place that determines the applicable labour law, regardless of where the employer has its headquarters. My employer was forced (yes, that involved actual legal analysis) to basically set up a one-man subsidiary in my country of residence just so they could legally have me work for them from home. There are entire companies specializing in setting up such "proxy employers". | |
| Oct 19, 2023 at 22:39 | history | edited | This_is_NOT_a_forum | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Active reading [<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dependent#Noun> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/let%27s#Etymology> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_clause_structure#Run-on_sentences>].
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| Oct 19, 2023 at 11:14 | comment | added | Shadow Wizard | @wizzwizz4 with all due respect, the answer there is given by private person, being a mod on Law.SE does not make them lawyer. So that's not anything close to reliable source. | |
| Oct 19, 2023 at 8:47 | comment | added | wizzwizz4 | @ShadowWizardIsSadAndAngry The laws of both countries apply. Otherwise that would be a massive loophole to bypass labour law. | |
| Oct 19, 2023 at 7:49 | comment | added | Shadow Wizard | @wizzwizz4 I'm not a lawyer so can't know for sure, but common sense does day that if an employee is hired by a USA company, that employee can be laid off according to the rules of USA, not wherever they live. The contract is personal, between the company and the employee. If there is an existing blog/article explaining otherwise, I'd be happy to read and learn. | |
| Oct 18, 2023 at 23:27 | comment | added | John Wright | (disclaimer: I was one of the employees laid off, but that’s unrelated to this comment). In a past life I was a manager at a different company and was told many times by corporate legal/HR that you basically never give reasons/criteria for firing someone unless specifically required to. The US is a very litigious nation and that info will often lead to lawsuits. | |
| Oct 18, 2023 at 21:38 | comment | added | wizzwizz4 | @ShadowWizardIsSadAndAngry A US company is not bound only to the US laws when it comes to hiring and employment practices. | |
| Oct 17, 2023 at 8:20 | comment | added | nvoigt | I'm not deep enough into their business to know whether they have local subsidiaries, hire their "staff" as self-employed, or have some other construct. I have no idea which labor laws apply for their remote workers. But since the company is a US company, they point of view of what is an acceptable "failure" (or if layoffs are even a "failure" at all) is certainly a US point of view. | |
| Oct 17, 2023 at 8:16 | comment | added | Shadow Wizard | @user10186832 but it's a US company, so bound only to the US laws. Also, no need to go far, the CEO himself wasn't born in the USA. (though might be considered USA citizen by now, didn't check that deep.) | |
| Oct 17, 2023 at 7:09 | comment | added | MT1 | Not all SE employees are based in the US. ... meta.stackexchange.com/users/508266/cesar-m | |
| Oct 17, 2023 at 6:12 | history | answered | nvoigt | CC BY-SA 4.0 |