Timeline for The new moderator agreement is now live for moderators to accept across the network
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
20 events
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| Jul 14, 2020 at 9:37 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні |
@ChristianRau The phrase begins with I will accept and in English "will" is a bit ambiguous in meaning, it can suggest (I'm not saying that is the interpretation meant) that the speaker has no freedom of choice, "will" can imply conformity. If you check a dictionary, "accept" is also a synonym of "abide".
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| Jul 14, 2020 at 8:54 | comment | added | Christian Rau | So...how exactly does not "accepting" guidance work if it is defined as fuzzy as listening to it and possibly considering it? Shutting off your ears and saying "lalala" when SE employees speak (virtually, of course)? And what does such intent-feelery have to do in an official semi-legal agreement? | |
| Jul 14, 2020 at 7:19 | history | edited | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added thoughts
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| Jul 10, 2020 at 20:28 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | Could you not say something like: “After consulting with staff for guidelines, we trust moderators to use their best judgment for each singular case.” OR " I promise to use my best judgment after consulting staff and discussing guidelines. | |
| Jul 10, 2020 at 20:19 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні |
@Catija At this point, changing the text of the agreement would require creating V3. I thought more carefully over what you said and I'm a bit puzzled. What's wrong with tweaking things if it means avoiding misunderstandings and misinterpretations? It seems that the sticking point with many observers is indeed with point (v). You want to avoid the V3 hassle? Just edit V2.
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| Jul 10, 2020 at 19:31 | comment | added | thebjorn | @JourneymanGeek "..has a better chance of recourse.." or the events of last fall has had a chilling effect and any communication from a SE employee will make a moderator fold, afraid to have their life destroyed if they don't obey, at once, with a smile. I wouldn't trust SE until they unconditionally restored Monica's status and banned Sarah from having any community interactions. I'm sorry it is this way, but that is very honestly how I feel. | |
| Jul 10, 2020 at 9:22 | comment | added | Journeyman Geek Mod | @Robotnik and that's something that probably is on everyone's mind at this point of time. That there's an explicit promise means that if its broken, hopefully which ever mod who is involved has a better chance of recourse, and well, I think most of the current mod community will pack up and scatter to better climes. We're all still collectively dealing with the wreckage of that incident, and the toxic culture in the company at the time that lead to it. | |
| Jul 10, 2020 at 3:55 | comment | added | Robotnik | @ColleenV "Are you saying SE shouldn't write a formal policy when they feel...that a gap in existing policy needs to be patched..." Of course not. My worry is the idea that ultimately, if there is a conflict between a mod/community and SE, that SE has ultimate authority to simply just hand down a mandate and make it happen, regardless of the mod/community's position. "My experience is that civil objections are not going to be held against you." - I know at least one ex-mod who had a different experience to this. Starts with 'M' and ends with 'onica' (: | |
| Jul 10, 2020 at 3:49 | comment | added | Robotnik | @Catija Imagine a controversial question being asked that is both valid and on-topic, but draws criticism & 'bad press' for SE, in a similar vein to the twitter HNQ incident. A CM steps in to help and offers the guidance of "it probably should just be deleted, yes?". The mod disagrees, because it is valid and on-topic for their site, and the mod team believes they can successfully contain any issues that arise on the question (delete comments, lock posts, etc) - but obviously they can't control the wider internet's response. What would happen in this case? | |
| Jul 9, 2020 at 17:57 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | This is different from a moderator choosing to go against one of the policies. As an example, our CoC prohibits bigotry. If a moderator sees bigotry on their site and refuses to act to remove it, in some cases that may lead to a conduct review. But there's a difference between a mod refusing to accept guidance and refusing to uphold the CoC. The CMs won't guide the mod to delete the stuff. We will delete it if it's clearly bigotry and we'll work with the mods to help them understand how it's problematic. | |
| Jul 9, 2020 at 17:53 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | @Robotnik It's going to depend a lot on what's going on. If we're talking about someone asking for advice in a situation, we'll give guidance when things are unclear. This is likely going to be in the form of "The intent of the policy is ____. Given that, does that help you decide how to act in your specific situation?" Giving guidance is not for the purpose of changing policy. It's about clarifying it. If the mod needs additional help, we may suggest a course of action but, in most cases, the final decision is up to the moderator. | |
| Jul 9, 2020 at 16:19 | comment | added | ColleenV |
@Robotnik Are you saying that SE shouldn't write a formal policy when they feel very strongly that a gap in existing policy needs to be patched or something needs to be clarified in a more formal way? SE has committed to Post previews for review of all new official policies in the Moderators Teams instance and I doubt anyone wants to go through that process without good reason.
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| Jul 9, 2020 at 2:42 | comment | added | Robotnik | @Catija What happens in the event that (v) someone accepts additional guidance from the Community Team or Leadership Team, but - for whatever reason - disagrees or disregards that guidance? Is the mod put in the bad books? What's stopping the employee from just writing a [mod-agreement-policy] to enforce their side of things? | |
| Jul 8, 2020 at 21:52 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | Slight clarification... v includes i through iv as the policies, not only iv. At this point, changing the text of the agreement would require creating V3. I understand your point but, other than non-impactful changes like adding the link to the help center, we aren't going to be rewording the agreement. | |
| Jul 8, 2020 at 20:37 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | @Catija good to know that there is some flexibility to point (v), maybe it could be stated more explicitly. | |
| Jul 8, 2020 at 20:27 | comment | added | Catija StaffMod | Points iv and v are paired. They refer to the same policies. As I note in the question, accepting additional guidance is as @DarkCygnus points out - the staff who created these policies and understand their intent are here to help moderators better interpret the policy. We offer guidance but we know that each site is slightly different and moderators may need to adjust our guidance to meet the needs of their site. We're asking them to listen to us but not forcing them to comply. | |
| Jul 8, 2020 at 20:07 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | @DarkCygnus if a moderator is not committed to follow the guidelines by the letter or even take the advice offered that suggests a certain leeway and freedom of interpretation. I'm not too sure whether that is the intention. It would be nice to hear it from the horse's mouth. | |
| Jul 8, 2020 at 19:59 | comment | added | DarkCygnus | My interpretation is the following: "I will abide" means you will act in accordance to the things mentioned. In my eyes, that is more binding and "stronger" than "I will accept"... now, the second one "I will accept additional guidance" means that you are committing to hear and take the advice given to you... but you are not committing to follow it by the letter, or even following it at all; that would fall into your interpretation and judgment as a mod and human being. | |
| Jul 8, 2020 at 19:25 | history | edited | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
deleted 5 characters in body
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| Jul 8, 2020 at 19:19 | history | answered | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | CC BY-SA 4.0 |