Timeline for Can we construct a voting model for SE so that moderators aren't necessary?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
43 events
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| Aug 27, 2023 at 19:22 | history | edited | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| S Jul 16, 2022 at 21:04 | history | notice removed | CommunityBot | ||
| S Jul 16, 2022 at 21:04 | history | unlocked | CommunityBot | ||
| S Jul 9, 2022 at 20:07 | history | notice added | Journeyman GeekMod | Comments only | |
| S Jul 9, 2022 at 20:07 | history | locked | Journeyman GeekMod | ||
| Jul 9, 2022 at 19:28 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @This_is_NOT_a_forum: Late answers are handled by putting all new changes onto the front page, where they refresh the whole question as if it were just asked. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 19:25 | history | rollback | reneMod |
Rollback to Revision 4
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| Jul 9, 2022 at 19:24 | history | edited | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 9, 2022 at 19:00 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @F1Krazy: Then there's no need for moderation. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 18:59 | comment | added | F1Krazy | Important enough to justify killing yourself if it's deleted? No. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 18:58 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @F1Krazy: Are you saying that nothing on SE is that harmful or important? Then, you don't need moderation, do you. "Sticks and stones may break peoples bones, but words will never hurt them." Let the People, via the community and voting system, do the work. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 18:42 | comment | added | F1Krazy | "When people can't express themselves, they always resort to something else you can't control or they abuse themselves (like suicide)." - If someone genuinely considers suicide because their Stack Exchange posts got deleted, they most likely have some sort of pre-existing psychiatric disorder such as depression. People taking their imaginary internet points too seriously isn't really our problem, to be frank. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 18:01 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @Mari-LouAСлаваУкраїні: No, when you delete content, it often remains silent. Ward Cunningham's wikiwikiweb project knew this long ago. Read why WikiWorks on his website. Participation is the SOLUTION to abusive behaviors while EXCLUSION is its cause. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 17:50 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | and who is going to do the policing? Who is going to handle the "red flags"? You're saying the community should self govern, in a certain sense it already does. Users who care about equality, fairness and impartiality keep their eyes open. Users who care about quality vote content. Users who care about the repository of knowledge will handle the review queues themselves. Users who witness a mod repeatedly misuse their privilege can write to Contact Support. Mods have been removed. Some fairly while others unfairly. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 17:43 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @Mari-LouAСлаваУкраїні: Ideally, the voting model should be perfected until comments and possibly red flags to higher-level users are all that are necessary. The abusive behaviors come when you resist free expression (like the ability to creative insult another user). When people can't express themselves, they always resort to something else you can't control or they abuse themselves (like suicide). | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 17:38 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | The Stack Exchange model, system and organisation is about as close to democracy as you are advocating for. Moderators are elected (although I do believe it shouldn't be for eternity as if they were Popes, landowners, parliament Lords or powerful industrialists) the vast majority of mods were elected by the community. Are you saying that moderator elections are unnecessary and should be eliminated? | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 17:21 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | I have successfully argued for the undeletion of posts that were mine and of others. Users have asked the community to reopen closed questions, 9/10 these requests were successful. The moderators and the community would agree. Not everyone, and not always, but fairly frequently. english.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7042/… Overalllthe system is not imperfect, there are indeed bad apples, but it's a system that works. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 17:16 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | The "little guy" is also the one who downvotes out of revenge. The "little guy" is also the one who bullies the newcomer, and trolls the older users. What makes you think that the establishment is all evil but the community is all good? That's never the case unless we're talking about a oligarchy and a tyrant. Do you feel subjected? Do you mistrust the management? Maybe you do, then you are free to leave or stand up and defend the user whose answer is unfairly deleted explaining why it should stand. Do this by earning 10K that's when deleted posts are no longer hidden. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 17:01 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @F1Krazy: Thoughout history, there are stories of the "little guy" who has a new idea that the "Establishment" doesn't believe is possible. What happens in your scenario? | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 16:57 | comment | added | F1Krazy | @Marxos That's not true. Users with a high enough reputation can see deleted answers and judge for themselves whether the deletion was correct. If they believe it was incorrect, they can flag it or raise it on Meta. | |
| Jul 9, 2022 at 16:55 | history | edited | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
example provided as per request.
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| Jul 9, 2022 at 16:52 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @Mari-LouAСлаваУкраїні: Moderators are useful for none of that. If moderators can delete "wrong" or "low quality" answers, who gets to know if the moderator was right? Nobody. There is no accountability. | |
| Jul 8, 2022 at 13:18 | answer | added | Ryan M | timeline score: 10 | |
| Jul 8, 2022 at 12:48 | history | edited | SpevacusMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 8, 2022 at 12:47 | history | reopened |
Luuklag samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz Ryan M Meta Andrew T. SpevacusMod |
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| Jul 8, 2022 at 7:23 | comment | added | W.O. | Fair enough. It is/should be an ongoing conversation as to how to improve. @Luuklag | |
| Jul 8, 2022 at 7:20 | comment | added | Luuklag | @W.O. The OP does so in an answer, there is nothing wrong with that. My preferred close reason would be none, leave it open. Not everything that isn't very helpful should be closed. | |
| Jul 8, 2022 at 7:15 | comment | added | Luuklag | I find it in very poor taste to close this as opinion based. Almost any question here on MSE is opinion based, as it usually boils down to "is this a good idea or not". Is it a very helpful discussion, I don't know, but it is a valid one to have. - Voting to re-open. | |
| Jul 8, 2022 at 7:14 | review | Reopen votes | |||
| Jul 8, 2022 at 12:55 | |||||
| Jun 21, 2022 at 9:39 | comment | added | This_is_NOT_a_forum | Or on Academia? It is quite a feat to get that many downvotes on relatively late answers (as attention would already have died down (I presume)). I don't think this proposal is from first principles. | |
| Jun 20, 2022 at 5:14 | history | closed |
Rob Justin John Omielan Robert Longson bad_coder |
Opinion-based | |
| Jun 20, 2022 at 2:04 | review | Close votes | |||
| Jun 20, 2022 at 5:14 | |||||
| Jun 19, 2022 at 23:49 | comment | added | This_is_NOT_a_forum | Though Physics is a more likely candidate. | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 23:17 | comment | added | This_is_NOT_a_forum | Yes, late answers are (unfortunately) usually not well received, no matter how well researched, well written, and relevant. This is a common experience. Better write a blog post instead. A late answer is far too risky. It is a pity. | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 22:53 | comment | added | This_is_NOT_a_forum | Can you be more specific about the examples in your question? What are you alluding to? Dupe hammering on Stack Overflow? Deleting of answers? Deleting of comments? Voting cabals by a small clique on a smaller site (effectively voting cabals, not organised)? Or something else? (But without "Edit:", "Update:", or similar - the question should appear as if it was written right now.) | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 19:14 | answer | added | Cerbrus | timeline score: 24 | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 18:41 | comment | added | W.O. | We generally advise people to stick around for a while to get to know how the sites work before suggesting improvements. I note you've been a member for over 7 years, and yet still haven't achieved the trusted user privilege. I'm not clear what problem it is that you're trying to solve here. Could you be specific - as just saying "mods/high-rep users are misusing power" doesn't match my experience at all. Please be specific about the exact nature of the problem. | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 18:33 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | Responding to: It seems that with the right voting model, reputation could be allocated perfectly and no moderation would be needed -- even in cases where vandalism or intended misinformation is given. What about the privilege of reversing serial downvotes? Who gets to use that? Deleting harmful hurtful comments? What about abusive, low quality and wrong answers? Moderators can zap them immediately on sight. What about sockpuppets, you know users who create multiple accounts to upvote their contributions. How would removing moderators resolve that problem? -1 you need to think this thru | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 18:22 | answer | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | timeline score: -23 | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 18:17 | comment | added | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | @bobble: Ultimately both, a proper voting model should be able to do away with all such "moderation". For example, people could "spend" their reputation if they wanted more power than the up/down vote. | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 18:14 | comment | added | bobble | Do you mean diamond moderators, who are elected to have special powers, or high-rep uses, whose experience earns them privileges? | |
| Jun 19, 2022 at 18:10 | history | edited | Justin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 19, 2022 at 18:07 | history | asked | Mark Rosenblitt-Janssen | CC BY-SA 4.0 |