Timeline for Summing up the main issues (The Story So Far)
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
51 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Jun 3, 2020 at 13:30 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
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| Feb 22, 2020 at 6:26 | comment | added | tkruse | This concept of privacy still allows to make snippets public if all (quoted) authors agree to it. And in case of a shitstorm like this, making exerpts public after checking with the participants might be more useful than 2nd hand reports. | |
| Nov 10, 2019 at 6:00 | comment | added | I am not the way you speak | So if someone in TL posted "I am going to kill myself" or "I am going to kill person X", this rule would prevent the other members from intervening? | |
| Oct 28, 2019 at 17:07 | comment | added | Destal | I don't believe anything is "unconditional" and I even think it's unethical to think that way. | |
| Oct 27, 2019 at 8:45 | comment | added | dfhwze | This no longer is a private issue. Both SE and Monica have been vocal and released public statements (either to external parties or in MSE). This is now a matter of public interest. Transparancy (redacted) trumps confidentiality imo. | |
| Oct 14, 2019 at 13:45 | history | bounty ended | gnat | ||
| Oct 13, 2019 at 3:27 | comment | added | WinEunuuchs2Unix | @RobertHarvey Oh well I never knew it existed until just now... It seems ironic to publicly discuss a private issue. | |
| Oct 13, 2019 at 2:53 | comment | added | user102937 | @WinEunuuchs2Unix: The existence of TL (and its private nature) was never a secret. | |
| Oct 13, 2019 at 2:44 | comment | added | WinEunuuchs2Unix | TL used to be private but you just publicized it with your answer here. | |
| Oct 9, 2019 at 22:17 | history | edited | user102937 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Oct 8, 2019 at 18:51 | comment | added | RBarryYoung | Not sure if someone already pointed this out, but if SO itself respected the rule of "What happens in TL stays in TL", then none of this could have happened. From the firing, to their announcements, to them talking to the press, at no point have they themselves been following that rule. Yes, they have not quoted literal text from TL, but it is 100% true that in this case, What happened in TL absolutely did NOT stay in TL. | |
| Oct 7, 2019 at 19:56 | comment | added | Ian Ringrose | I have no problem believing that the fundamental issues have been well expressed in many postings and that a transcript from the TL would add nothing, partly as I expected that stackexchange had already decided the views of one groups is always valid regardless of what anyone else thinks. | |
| Oct 7, 2019 at 9:53 | comment | added | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | I'm presuming that the room is for more than one "teacher" but seeing as I'm not a mod, I don't know for certain where SE placed their possessive apostrophe. Apologies in advance if there's a punctuation error. | |
| Oct 7, 2019 at 9:46 | history | edited | Mari-Lou A Слава Україні | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Oct 6, 2019 at 4:48 | comment | added | aparente001 | @RobertHarvey - I'd like to see if Monica described her own positions and actions faithfully; I'd like to see the exchange; I'd like to see if anybody was being disrespectful or just generally a PITA; I'd like to see what that chat room is like. I visited the chat room for Interpersonal Skills once (quite some time ago), and I saw some people ganging up going on. I'd like to see if anyone appeared to be baiting Monica. I'd just like to see it for myself, so I can form my own opinion. | |
| Oct 6, 2019 at 4:44 | comment | added | user102937 | @aparente001: There's nothing more to be learned from the transcript that you don't already know from Meta. | |
| Oct 6, 2019 at 4:39 | comment | added | aparente001 | @RobertHarvey - But if the choices are (a) redacted version, and (b) nothing, surely the redacted version would be chosen. | |
| Oct 6, 2019 at 4:39 | comment | added | user102937 | @aparente001: No one would be satisfied with that. Compare to the Muller Report. Everyone wanted the unredacted version. | |
| Oct 6, 2019 at 4:37 | comment | added | aparente001 | @RobertHarvey - When a parent asks a school district for certain educational records that include other students' names and information, the solution is to redact names and information that would allow a reader to figure out who is talking or being talked about. Would careful redaction be an acceptable compromise so that the community can read the exchange for themselves? | |
| Oct 5, 2019 at 15:56 | comment | added | user102937 | And I have no fear whatsoever of the transcripts being made public, other than the fact that it is profoundly disrespectful to those who played by the rules and acted in accordance with them. | |
| Oct 5, 2019 at 15:55 | comment | added | user102937 | @Richard: That is not what I said. You need to read my comments again. | |
| Oct 5, 2019 at 15:55 | comment | added | Richard | I find it highly illuminating that you think that the Teacher's Lounge is somewhere that the rules of civility don't apply. It's probably why you're so petrified of the transcripts becoming public. | |
| Oct 5, 2019 at 14:52 | comment | added | user102937 | @Richard: You misunderstand the purpose of the "Be Nice" rule. That rule applies to direct interactions. Do moderators talk about feckless new users in the TL? All the time. They do it to blow off steam and avoid telling feckless new users to their face that they're feckless. The issue at hand here is of an entirely different nature; it is about civility in the Teacher's Lounge itself, about direct interactions between its participants. And what goes on in the TL is not secret to those who participate there. | |
| Oct 5, 2019 at 14:10 | comment | added | Richard | @RobertHarvey - My personal experience of TL is that people have hidden behind that cloak of secrecy in order to repeatedly violate the "be nice" rule when talking about ordinary users. Sunlight disinfects. | |
| Oct 5, 2019 at 14:09 | comment | added | user102937 | @Richard: Well the people who are leaking the transcript are just wrong. Regardless of their stand on this particular issue, the fact that they are willingly choosing to violate what most of the mods consider a very important principle means that they are not worthy of their diamonds. | |
| Oct 5, 2019 at 11:30 | comment | added | Richard | Given that TL leaks like a sieve, complete with partial transcripts regularly turning up on reddit and twitter, this answer reads more like aspiration than reality. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 21:16 | comment | added | Federico Poloni | @RobertHarvey As I have pointed out in another comment, comparing TL to a private house is a bad metaphor. It's more like a tribunal or a police district, since it has a public role in the administration of our common space. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 20:56 | comment | added | user102937 | It really isn't all that much secrecy. The vast majority of it has to do with sensitive policies and situations that legitimately require some discretion. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 20:54 | comment | added | NKCampbell | was just a question - if there is an actual reason why those discussions need to be private where other chat rooms aren't that's fine. Also - the metaphor is entirely miscast. For the vast majority of users, the site is thought of as a public forum where you can see most, if not all the activity that takes place. A company keeping company information secret between paid employees is one thing. I for one didn't realize the level of compartmentalization and secrecy that occurs behind the scenes, especially for volunteer users. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 20:51 | comment | added | user102937 | @NKCampbell: The Teacher's Lounge is not the only thing that is kept private on Stack Exchange. For the most part, user suspensions are also kept private, and so is the entire working machinery of Stack Exchange corporate. You might as well ask why we don't have microphones in everyone's household in the name of transparency. Yes, there are legitimate reasons for having private conversations. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 20:50 | comment | added | NKCampbell | is it worth asking if an entirely private room with zero transparency is even appropriate for the most powerful users to have? Who knows what is discussed in there (I know you'll say it's all benign...) but this situation may cause some reevaluation as to if that room is even necessary to the core needs of moderators. Seems like power for power sake and now some chickens are coming home to roost | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 20:50 | comment | added | user603947 | Let me stress that the above comments were not meant to be an accusation. Nonetheless it is true that in the real life there are checks and balances, and there are certain rules in place in order to ensure transparency. This is precisely in order make people trust in their leadership. If you abolish transparency, you will very likely run into problems of mutual mistrust. This is why I am pro transparency. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 19:56 | history | edited | user102937 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Oct 4, 2019 at 19:24 | comment | added | aparente001 | @RobertHarvey - You and I can both ask people to go to the other page and recast their votes. People are spending a lot of time on Meta. I'm confident people will go there and express their opinion through their vote. There's not much people can do at the moment -- people are feeling impotent -- and so the ability to vote has taken on special importance to many right now. // Later I am probably going to make my answer a wiki and you may want to consider doing that. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 19:23 | comment | added | user102937 | @aparente001: I can't do that without losing the voting information. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 19:19 | comment | added | aparente001 | @RobertHarvey - Thanks for following up with your comment. I would like to keep this q-a page well organized. In that spirit, I request that you do it the other way around, please. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 19:18 | comment | added | user102937 | @aparente001: I posted a cross-link at that location. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 19:12 | comment | added | aparente001 | Would you mind moving this post over to meta.stackexchange.com/q/334214/287826? To keep things organized. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:30 | review | Low quality posts | |||
| Oct 4, 2019 at 19:05 | |||||
| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:17 | comment | added | user102937 | That sounds like an accusation. Which is fine; all I have for you to rely on is my good faith. If it helps, take solace in the fact that I had enough integrity to maintain the confidentiality that we all agreed to when we participated in the TL. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:15 | comment | added | user603947 | Don't get me wrong, but if someone had something to hide, this is precisely what they would say. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:14 | comment | added | user102937 | @Schrödinger'scat: There's nothing in the transcript that will shed any further light on the salient issues. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:10 | comment | added | user603947 | I'm sure this comment will be removed, but: are you sure that less transparency will help to solve these issues? Or is it that the whole model of this site with privileges and so on is built on the assumption that some users are more equal than others? | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:09 | comment | added | Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog | Legally, the only things that can't be disclosed from things kept private to moderators is personally identifiable information. There is no legal reason stopping things other than PII from being disclosed; the only thing is an informal agreement. So disclosing the common sense room description is perfectly fine. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:07 | history | edited | user102937 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Oct 4, 2019 at 18:02 | comment | added | user102937 | Let me put it this way: this is already common knowledge. I used the exact words in the chat room description, because this provides clarification about what everyone who participates there agrees to. The description doesn't surface any PII, and nobody is going to argue that the private nature of the TL itself must remain private. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 17:59 | comment | added | Marco13 | Relying on "common sense" can be veeery dangerous these days. I hope you're right, though... | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 17:56 | history | edited | user102937 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Oct 4, 2019 at 17:52 | comment | added | user102937 | @DoubleAA: Common sense would seem to prevail here. The room description does not contain any confidential material. | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 17:51 | comment | added | Double AA | Is the room description included in the prohibition on copying? (Russell's paradox?) | |
| Oct 4, 2019 at 17:46 | history | answered | user102937 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |